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| JusAvgustin8. 01. 2010 12:14:35 |
This is not alpinism... I suggest watching the following films: Touching the void, Am limit, North face, films by Humar (sadly I don't have them, if someone has them please share).
A bit less serious are K2, Vertical limit etc... though the last two are American s*****
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| Mate078. 01. 2010 12:18:20 |
Alpinism consists of various activities, practically covering all climbing areas. Basically it can be divided into winter and summer alpinism.
Summer alpinism involves multi-pitch rock routes. Progression methods vary, recently free climbing prevails, but we also know technical climbing. Routes are differently equipped, classic alpinism advocates placing protection on site or rejects bolts in walls. We also know longer routes equipped with bolts, which falls under sport climbing (not always).
Winter alpinism can roughly be divided into snow-ice and mixed routes climbing, ice climbing, ski mountaineering and snowboarding. Partly under winter alpinism also touring skiing and summit approaches (in winter). Snow-ice and mixed routes climbing often interweaves with ice climbing as longer routes often have ice sections. Combined climbing represents rock sections in snow-ice routes. They can be climbed with classic technique (free or technical) or drytooling (climbing with ice axes and crampons).
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| Mate078. 01. 2010 12:20:59 |
Mountaineering is an activity in mountains including both summer and winter ascents. Mountaineering can also include off-trail walking and climbing easier sections (max II-III), and approaches to higher summits. A person who engages in mountaineering is a mountaineer.
Often the term mountaineering overlaps with alpinism and hiking, as activities are sometimes shared or overlapping.
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| JusAvgustin8. 01. 2010 12:41:06 |
Via ferratas, sorry but for me this is not alpinism, I agree with you that the ascent to Jalovec in winter conditions is an alpinist ascent, same for Prisojnik, and other approaches where other knowledge is needed than just walking... In the book Winter ascents in Slovenian mountains there are quite a few such. Anyway let some alpinist (with title) give his opinion, we are just babbling. I see that you master the copy-paste variant 
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| rok868. 01. 2010 13:03:15 |
Mate07 you've really missed it via ferratas have nothing to do with alpinism!
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| Gorazd G8. 01. 2010 15:25:53 |
Maybe a question for one of the next polls:
"Do you think climbing secured climbing paths ('via ferratas') belongs to alpinism?"
Something like that ... Tadej probably knows how to phrase the question better.
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| JusAvgustin8. 01. 2010 16:00:48 |
hi gorazd and the rest of the "gang" on the forum. Well posed question. No, in my opinion via ferrata (secured mountain path) does not belong to alpinist ascent at all, although via ferratas abroad are quite different from ours... For summer alpinist ascent I count rock routes where without proper gear and knowledge and of course fitness you have no business there e.g. triglav north face (bavarian, men's, rocky), Jalovec wall, devil's pillar, Rokavi, wide slab... (you know what I mean) For winter alpinist ascent I also count ascent to Jalovec through the couloir, various combined snow-ice routes (gullies), icefall climbing. Alpinist ascent without knowledge (alpinist school etc...) is suicide, but it's not just about climbing technique, there's also orientation, weather lore, avalanche conditions, gear knowledge... And so I won't babble too much... Where on a via ferrata do you need orientation, pitons, rope technique, karabiners...? Via ferratas (in my humble opinion) are just a step higher than hiking, for those who don't fear air under their feet and like challenges. But this is by no means alpinism. There is a difference between real alpinism and activity where you need alpinist (basic) knowledge. e.g. pathless terrain, ridge traverses... 
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| JusAvgustin8. 01. 2010 16:22:16 |
we have a lot of good (too good unfortunately) alpinists here, there are also websites with info on conditions, routes, difficulties (in short everything about a bit different more radical approaches to mountains) if anyone is interested, let me warn that you get addicted in the nicest possible way it becomes a way of life. Nevertheless start with walking in "normal hills" with an experienced and qualified person who can assess the situation and knows when to turn back. For the end one more statement by Ernest Hemingway, he says like this: "only three real sports exist: Bullfighting, car racing and alpinism. Everything else are games..."
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| heinz8. 01. 2010 16:27:54 |
Anyway, somehow in lay or even classic terms I consider alpinists those circus performers who climb vertical walls and hammer pitons etc., not us who occasionally grab rocks and cables, or are sometimes forced to do some straddle (with full pants) etc. If occasionally for a few minutes or good half hour we "chase the sewing machine", as my buddy cleverly put it recently, we still aren't any alpinists.
Even that "dude" who climbed the most difficult routes (read unmarked), so routes in Julian Alps, is just (hats off) "Julian alpinist"..
For us on this general side (most) the climbing routes in the Alps are probably complete strangers.
My opinion.
Good luck, heinz!
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| heinz8. 01. 2010 16:48:12 |
According to some PZS ratings I am also "Alpinist".
Namely, winter ascent above 2000m counts as alpinist feat.
Guys and girls, let's go to Debelo peč, so we can say: we are alpinists too..
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| aljazek8. 01. 2010 16:50:19 |
Mate, you've missed a bit here. Via ferratas really aren't alpinism. Watch Touching the Void, that's the real thing. If via ferratas were alpinism, I already have quite a few free-climbed routes
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| strelec19548. 01. 2010 17:09:11 |
Above 2000m alpinist...?? that's a good one. By these standards I'm a top alpinist since every year in winter conditions on Kredarica sometimes even on the summit. As for via ferratas I think they don't have much in common with alpinism except that both happen in mountains.
My experiences and thoughts in mountains. The nicest is in pathless terrain more or less demanding, for example I'd mention the Martuljek end really wonderful unmarked path, here and there offers also easier climbing, but I definitely advise everyone not to venture on such paths without "mileage" on marked paths and via ferratas.
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| Mate078. 01. 2010 22:50:11 |
Yeah, mountaineering or alpinism has interested me only since 2009 so I don't have much knowledge from this field.
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| elpadre9. 01. 2010 14:25:17 |
hey
the film (Touching the Void) is very cool, where it also shows that mountains are no joke. If anyone has some similar film on alpinism theme, please share the title, thanks and best regards.
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| antik9. 01. 2010 14:49:23 |
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| strelec19549. 01. 2010 18:27:24 |
ANTIK,
excellent film, worth watching and thinking about...
best regards.
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| antik9. 01. 2010 20:02:42 |
Thanks
film
Drama in der Eiger Nordwand
is very good and I cried at the end when watching!
on Youtube in 8 parts.
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| JusAvgustin9. 01. 2010 20:20:06 |
To become alpinist (title) you get as follows. Alpine school (basics of alpinism, covers all areas of alpinism, from rope techniques, knots, all the way to ice climbing), when you finish that you're a trainee, then junior aspirant, after certain number of ascents (alpine ascents, climbing routes graded IV or more - summer and winter - scale snow + ice), senior aspirant can already climb certain routes alone, but still has a mentor who directs and leads to final goal - exam for alpinist (person professionally qualified for climbing and off-trail in mountains. That means has x ascents over 2000 m in winter conditions behind, that means has bunch of summer ascents in rock routes, also with ice etc. etc. That we go to hills in winter to Viševnik, Debelo peč (over 2000m) means nothing to us, to them another ascent recorded and condition to approach exam. http://www.gore-ljudje.net/novosti/5690/ if anyone interested in whole drill!
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| antik10. 01. 2010 21:15:51 |
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| antik10. 01. 2010 21:24:55 |
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