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| Zvončica515. 07. 2024 16:07:51 |
Hello,
I'm interested in which secured climbing paths you recommend to someone who is more of a beginner in this? So, that the protections are impeccable, quite frequent, at least at critical points. I was on Triglav and Mangart via the Slovenian route, where the securing is really good. I'd like to tackle some other path of similar difficulty. What would you recommend?
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| turbo15. 07. 2024 18:05:15 |
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| Zvončica517. 07. 2024 15:38:47 |
Thanks for the reply. For the path to Vrbanove špice I read it's quite crumbly and technically much more demanding than these two I've done. On photos it looks very attractive though, but I wouldn't want to overestimate my abilities... maybe for later. About Hanzova to Mala Mojstrovka I've already been thinking. Last year I had some concerns due to great exposure, but the rock is supposed to be more reliable and the path excellently secured. I have it planned soon.
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| lynx18. 07. 2024 23:08:05 |
You can't go wrong with Gradiška tour, optionally continue on Otmarjeva.
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| janezs7324. 07. 2025 13:06:00 |
I'd like to open the issue of what a "secured" path even is - an issue I've been thinking about in recent years, when (ever less frequently and more out of necessity) I venture onto marked paths. The problem is the completely different population of people using our "secured" paths today compared to 40 years ago, while the equipment of these paths remains the same.
Let me describe my thoughts from the last tour - crossing Mojstrovke, Travnik, Šit (clear pathless to here), which ended with ascent to Jalovec (from Škrbina) and descent to Kotovo sedlo.
In the past we were accustomed from a young age to climbing near rare pegs and even rarer wire ropes. As kids we tempered ourselves on these paths with parents, grandparents, more experienced peers, at camps, courses and of course alone. Above all we mastered our shady ledges, slabs, scree gullies and couloirs and perceived loose ridges as normal.
Today the population going to the mountains mostly lacks these experiences (in muscle memory). They go to the store for SVK, harness and helmet and get a sense of safety and full readiness for tours.
The last ascent to Jalovec and descent from it filled me with horror again at how dangerous our secured paths are for people unprepared for such terrain. Especially in light of equipment on similar paths in neighboring countries.
And from this viewpoint the ascent and descent from Jalovec stands out. Even if it's easy for some, please refrain from such comments, because objectively this path is not and never will be.
In my opinion these paths should at least be recategorized and equipped with a sign "very demanding marked unsecured paths", so people at least think that maybe they won't use the SVK anywhere.
What's your opinion?
(Let's leave the formal side now, what all would be needed for something like that).
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| dprapr24. 07. 2025 14:00:33 |
The problem is only that SVK is recommended for all secured paths. Even though it's annoying in many places and provides false security. SVK should be recommended for paths of difficulty D and above. Because then on easier paths where some climbing is needed, they wouldn't rely on it. The problem is also that abroad everything is called via ferratas. When I last watched under Cristallo how they gear up, I expected at least D difficulty or more. When they clip to every anchor like in Gardaland! All the charm of the path is lost.
And we should clarify what via ferratas are and what secured paths are. Here too we should start calling ferrata those with D difficulty.
But equipping all paths with wire ropes doesn't lead anywhere either. Let some remain like this path from Jalovec. So at least somewhere they see that not everything depends on constant clipping.
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| turbo24. 07. 2025 14:44:48 |
The self-belay kit is useful for many with less experience already on B/C, even on easier ones, or on some section of Rekarjeva on Vrbani, for example, and so on. Not everyone is a former alpinist for whom everything easier than D is a piece of cake. If someone clips in twice on the secured Rjavina, for example, because they feel safer that way, why not, and if someone is so good they don't even grab the cable, that's fine too.
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| DVas24. 07. 2025 14:51:23 |
It was really funny to see helmets and SVKs on B. Gamsovec from Luknja... Maybe for the descent towards Sovatna but I think no need there either.
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| janezs7324. 07. 2025 15:36:46 |
I fear SVK is not the cause of the problem. It's just a market response that is developing. It can benefit many (if there's infrastructure), but it also misleads (if there isn't). And since this market is developing as it is, but infrastructure isn't (developing), we have a problem. That's the expectation that you can safely do harder tours just by buying gear that should compensate for lack of experience moving in such terrain without serious consequences.
Since I don't believe infrastructure will develop (say, unbroken cables, probably for various reasons), it would be easier to point out that it's not there. That SVK is useless and without knowledge people won't get home safely.
Helmet though is mandatory everywhere here in my opinion, since rocks can fly at you. I sometimes keep it on longer during descents so the sun doesn't bake my head  .
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| n3jc24. 07. 2025 16:15:01 |
Well, for starters: hribi.net lists for Bovski Gamsovec
"Recommended gear (summer): helmet, self-belay kit". I assume generic, from the route category.
And actually PZS also mentions SVKs on its website for very demanding secured paths. Well sure, the classification is too coarse, everything falls under such paths.
Information has its own reach and here we'll never find out if it's Tripadvisor, tourist bulletin, official media, facebook etc., hribi.net (the latter with really high visit numbers is surely a reference for foreigners too) ...
Once information circulates it's hard to steer it the other way, I think the warnings about bivouac under Skuta are an example that don't stick ...
Helmet though ... as janezs73 says.
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| miri24. 07. 2025 16:20:56 |
What would Luka and Matevž say about this info?
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