Organizer (Together to the Mountains) and Logbook
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| ljubitelj gora15. 07. 2011 18:28:11 |
On the left side in the Together to the Mountains section, when you enter a tour you automatically become the organizer, now I'm wondering if as organizer you also bear responsibility, is that so or not?
I'm also interested what this logbook is, if I got it right, you buy a phone with GPS and register on this portal and it determines your current location.
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| lynx15. 07. 2011 19:27:00 |
If you're worried about responsibility, you can add a clear warning that participation is at one's own (responsibility).
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| julius15. 07. 2011 20:00:38 |
Lynx.
Organizer always bears full responsibility for anything that might happen on such a trip. In court no gymnastics with the excuse that they go with you at own responsibility helps.
Sadly!!
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| ljubitelj gora15. 07. 2011 20:58:36 |
Then I suggest immediate removal of the "together to the mountains" section.
I posted a new trip for Sunday, together to the mountains and when I saw I'm the organizer I immediately deleted the trip.
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| JusAvgustin15. 07. 2011 21:21:39 |
or weren't you the one who initiated this idea? now you'd just delete it. what will others say about this? no hard feelings. Anyway we're people and we can agree among ourselves, basically. Even who bears responsibility...
Regards
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| ljubitelj gora15. 07. 2011 21:31:33 |
I go to the mountains to enjoy, because I love walking a lot, even in free time I walk and run a lot, but I wouldn't take someone with me for whom I'd have to be responsible in case of accident.
It's still better to join a mountaineering club PD, where the mountaineer is insured, can insure additionally elsewhere, but it costs people, PD Matica for example organizes trips, check here for more
http://www.pd-ljmatica.si/
prices are accordingly, but to charge someone here as organizer is a bit too much and would be considered black market work.
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| Rok15. 07. 2011 21:33:28 |
The Together to the Mountains section is intended for users to more easily find company for the mountains. Basically it was thought that the one who plans to go to the mountains and seeks company creates a group in the "Together to the Mountains" section. Via the form, they describe where they are going, what kind of company they want, what knowledge and experience are needed, etc. If someone wants to join, they then sign up for the group.
Basically it wasn't intended that the one who creates the group be particularly responsible. If the problem is that we gave this person the name organizer, we can change that.
I'm not a lawyer, but I think if someone agrees to do something on their own risk, then they do it on their own risk.
Some time ago there were proposals regarding electronic logbook, electronic stamps... That's why we added the Logbook section.
The logbook is used by taking your mobile phone when you reach the summit and registering on the website http://www.hribi.net/eknjiga. If you have GPS receiver enabled on your mobile phone, location data will be sent upon registration and the system will automatically detect the mountain name where you are.
Then on the website the location is published (mountain name, latitude/longitude, altitude).
Since the location data provided can also be "proof" that we were really on the summit, the logbook can also be used for collecting (electronic) stamps.
Currently the logbook is still in test phase, so opinions and additional suggestions are welcome. We will add more detailed instructions too.
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| lynx15. 07. 2011 23:16:50 |
Yes, I suggest replacing "organizer" with "initiator" or something more fun.
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| Žiga2216. 07. 2011 01:13:32 |
On the page it clearly says "organizer" and I wouldn't by any chance go write there that I "organize" a trip. Some layman would come along thinking that experienced guides organize this, and it doesn't take much more to have trouble.
It should be written in a way that it's some group going to the mountains or in the style "I'm heading there and there at that time, if you *accidentally* find yourself at the same place at the same time we can go together"  .
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| Žiga2216. 07. 2011 01:15:05 |
Oh, and just now I saw that it says next to it "price" and "number of free spots".
By these two criteria one could conclude that it should be some concrete organization, not just an initiative.
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| Rok16. 07. 2011 02:14:14 |
The purpose of the Together to the Mountains section is finding company.
Finding company is allowed, even if you organize a picnic or are a mountain guide etc.
That's why there's also the option to enter price.
All details should be entered in the "additional description" field.
In addition, comments can be added to clarify any ambiguities.
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| tiyana16. 07. 2011 10:19:30 |
Here you are really some strange birds. On another portal we have a group. Almost every week we have some tour announced. Under the announcement it says that every hiker goes on their own responsibility. We all know that we are responsible each for ourselves. Every hiker must assess themselves whether they are capable of the tour or not. This section should be for mountain lovers who like to go to mountains in company and who know that it's just gathering of Hribi.net "racers" and there is no organizer....here are only proposers. Paid tours shouldn't seek anything here. Regards
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| alpin16. 07. 2011 10:33:54 |
Why not? If someone wants to climb a more demanding summit, ridge,.. they enter the wish under this section. Probably some mountain guide would be found who would safely and professionally carry out the feat for payment.
If more sign up, the tour would become cheaper and all would benefit and above all safe feat.!!!
That's my opinion.
I would praise the Hribi.net portal or Rok and Tadej who take care that there's always something new and follow the times and progress.
Best regards
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| tiyana16. 07. 2011 10:47:38 |
Mountain guides should have their own section, so everything won't be mixed and there will be no ambiguities ... if someone wants a tour that way, they will know exactly where to turn
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| kolobar16. 07. 2011 11:07:42 |
Tiyana is right. Tours offered by mountain guides should not be mixed with "spontaneous" gatherings. The fact is that the "organizer" is always responsible for the participants, even if they signed "at their own risk", and it doesn't matter at all whether it's a commercial (paid) tour or not. And legally, "organizer" is quite generously defined.
For spontaneous gathering, the one looking for company would just write where they are heading, then negotiate with potential fellow hikers via phone or private messages.
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| sandij7416. 07. 2011 11:53:38 |
We're already like in America. I understand "together to the mountains" as someone looking for company to spend a nice day in the mountains. More and more useless debates are appearing.
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| kolobar16. 07. 2011 14:42:05 |
Debates are useless if useless comments like the one above appear in them.
The responsibility of organizers naturally imposes on them the duty to ensure the safety of participants and thus protects the inexperienced in activities that can be risky like hiking in the mountains. There's probably nothing wrong with that and I don't know what it has to do with America. To avoid the organizer's responsibility in mountain gatherings, it's right to separate the two.
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| sandij7416. 07. 2011 14:48:57 |
Obviously you don't distinguish what company means and what organization means.
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| julius16. 07. 2011 15:53:31 |
Sandi74!
What did you mean by "organization"?
Organization of a party, excursion, hike...!
Organization of UN, Red Cross, ZZB NOV....!
And what is company for you? Three friends, right?
"Kolobar" is damn right in all his statements.
What do you say to the following hypothesis???
I organize a mountain trip for my family and my friend's family. My friend's child gets seriously injured on this trip with permanent consequences. The insurance blames me as the "ORGANIZER" for everything. How do I get out of this situation?
With Čeferin?
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| kolobar16. 07. 2011 15:56:33 |
Don't you think that by separating the invitations of mountain guides from looking for company in the mountains, we are separating company from organization.
Anyway, it doesn't matter what I separate and what you understand. What's important is how the legal system defines the organizer, which determines his responsibility in case of an accident.
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