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| ljubitelj gora14. 01. 2014 11:51:43 |
Use of two ice axes in a gully, there you must not afford a mistake/fall at all, how would anyone stop with two if one was thrown at your head. If it's two hiking ice axes, what's the rule regarding loops, carrying, is it even OK. Easier with two, less effort, greater sense of security, easier progress...
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| jedriličar14. 01. 2014 11:59:52 |
@lg: where two ice axes are used, such a fall doesn't stop anyway, no chance because it's too steep. There either you go up with two ice axes solo or belayed, or you turn around and go down. And with hiking ice axes you don't go into gullies, especially if a bit more demanding, for those you have leashes that are curved and when you stab up it holds at two points: pick and handle. Hiking ones hold only at one point and that's the pick, the rest is in the air and that's more dangerous, it's more dangerous to climb with a hiking ice axe than to hammer it with the handle into the snow and go up ... so buy two leashes and continue through the gullies ...
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| JusAvgustin14. 01. 2014 12:11:17 |
He doesn't need a climbing one because he walks anyway... When he gets into more serious gullies then you have nothing to seek there with that.
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| jedriličar14. 01. 2014 12:11:18 |
Yes, these are fine for easier gullies and if not hard and frozen, if hard then you need leashes with more aggressive pick angle, say Cassin X-Alp model or similar ... I for example use Cassins, and I'm very satisfied with them, because I don't climb ice stuff (icefalls nothing, mixed routes rarely), and X-Alps are quite fine for walking and gullies, traverses or vertical ascents. On the other hand, those special ice axes for ice have different center of gravity geometry and the handle at the bottom is often protected so your hand can't slide down, and thus not suitable for walking or ascents because you can't stab it into snow ..... in my opinion, you have to find some combination that best satisfies your needs and wishes, it makes no sense to carry up one ice axe for walking, then two for gully, two for route ... find some middle ground and buy such pair of ice axes and go ... and above all, go do a winter alpinism course or school, they will teach you a lot of this, then more will be clear to you ... best regards and safe
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| jedriličar14. 01. 2014 12:25:41 |
@lg: check for example on iglu-sport three Cassin models (not that I'm advertising, but easier to explain): x-alp, x-all mountain and x-dream and pay attention to handle curvature, pick angle and that x-dream you can't stab into snow, in case you're going on steep snow-covered scree and it's hard and frozen, what will you do there with x-dream? Or if you get to vertical ice route, what will you do there with x-alp? So, every ice axe has its purpose and it's hard to find one that suits you in all conditions, so you give up some things from the start, and go. I already decided at the beginning that ice doesn't interest me and thus it's easier for me, I don't have a pair of ice axes and saved myself some 400 eur. Do you know how much beer that is? 
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| dprapr14. 01. 2014 12:33:34 |
A few years ago very steep things were climbed also with such (maybe shorter and even straighter). But true, then you had properly bashed finger joints!!
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| jedriličar14. 01. 2014 12:37:01 |
Yeah, you're right, years ago they even went to Everest with hemp ropes, wooden ice axes, and ten-tooth crampons, and technology advances and today allows even less experienced greater achievements due to better technical gear...
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| ljubitelj gora14. 01. 2014 12:40:46 |
Ice climbing doesn't interest me, nor very demanding routes, more like MM via Pripravniška, Tosc gully, ... but when there are verticals in between I have nothing to do there solo. Namely as you saw I was alone on Sunday which means I'm responsible for everything myself. It's nice to have someone with you who knows the terrain and gives you some advice. I choose winter ascents based on already walked paths, that's the condition at all, because otherwise you don't even know where to go. I'm still just a hiker like everyone else. Filled gullies I like a lot, a bit right, a bit left and just below the summit, when after a few seconds paradise opens up to the surrounding peaks  This with ice axe needs thinking about.
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| Zebdi14. 01. 2014 12:49:18 |
I went via Pripravniška to MM and East to Tosec without any problem with a regular straight hiking ice axe. For in there you really don't need ice tools...
dprapr, exactly that. With Axars you could climb WI5+ without trouble, but it's true, the wrists suffered Anyway, as far as I know, also Rinka, Čaša and Ledenka weren't climbed with some Nomics or similar wonders
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| jedriličar14. 01. 2014 12:51:43 |
Look, @lg, if you go to Vrtača or Mojstrovka or something similar in winter conditions, over a gully or some normal path, that has nothing to do with hiking anymore, that's alpinism, and to do alpinism you need some knowledge, if you don't you'll end up like that guy I found who went down from Y-ka without crampons and without ice axe. He managed but he disassembled his poles and was hammering the poles into the snow so he doesn't slip and when we came over he was shaking from fear when he reached safety, on the traverse to Zelenjak. Or those three, two chicks and a guy with regular hiking ice axes and they wanted to push up the Y-ka, they said they climbed such steep slopes, but just tell them where to descend from Vrtača down ... and we luckily convinced them to turn around, and they listened, and turned. So if you put in a little effort and will, and go to some alpinism school, you'll achieve much more than now. Alpinism isn't just climbing with rope ... say, I don't remember when I last used rope in snow conditions, but I always carry it with me...
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| viharnik14. 01. 2014 16:26:05 |
For the mentioned gullies the ice axe leash is still the best, because in semi-dry conditions you can grab a rock on the fly, and the ice axe hangs on the wrist. Grivel leash holds with double strap and plastic palm rest like glued.
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| lizika14. 01. 2014 20:54:39 |
Juš, LG doesn't stamp, at least I haven't seen him with dilcam yet. And look how he's writing, he's not half as full of himself as you.
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| JusAvgustin15. 01. 2014 06:14:20 |
I think you know well what this term means. There's nothing derogatory in this term. At least not for me. Nothing wrong with stamping as such. But for that you really don't need tools, no! I noticed that the circle of fans is irresistibly expanding, maybe soon there'll be enough of you to have a shovel...
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| pikica115. 01. 2014 09:50:25 |
Oh what shovel whatever, if they wanted to drag you somewhere even a toilet would be too good 
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| JusAvgustin15. 01. 2014 17:53:44 |
At such an intellectual statement even Socrates would fall silent.
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