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| Karletto9. 10. 2013 18:19:56 |
I'd need a sleeping bag in winter down to say -5°C or max -10°C, otherwise dry, but there'll also be some condensation around. Surely wouldn't use it in the open.
I have some experience and don't imagine sleeping naked underneath...
What experiences do you have? What do you recommend?
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| jedriličar9. 10. 2013 20:31:07 |
Yes I use Camp ED 500, weight 800g, down 600g, I tested it to about -5 without clothes (just in underwear), to about -10 dressed, and if it's cold I also get into the bivy bag, it works. Tested in winter conditions in car and bivouacs or winter rooms. Only problem - expensive, about 300 EUR, but I got it on sale for 200 EUR. Small, fits in backpack, I'm satisfied. There, if I helped you ...
Best regards
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| viharnik9. 10. 2013 21:00:20 |
Sleeping in sub-zero temperatures is no joke. You need to take appropriate sleeping bag with temperature rating that matches your mountain use. Namely, during sleep the body cools down unnoticed to the point that unfortunately we never wake up again. Additional use of bivy bag adds some degrees to the + sleeping bag we use, it also reflects moisture well, if the bag breathes, if goretex then own thermal condensate builds up inside.
Good bags last for years, so it's not worth saving some +/- 100€. Very useful bags are made of synthetic material that doesn't absorb moisture. Also modern down ones are quite moisture resistant due to pertex material, thermally more efficient and lighter. If I were buying, I'd get Rab down Neutrino Endurance, which mostly covers conditions of European Alps.
http://rab.uk.com/products/sleeping-bags/neutrino-endurance/neutrino-endurance-600.html
A bit stronger is Andes 800
http://rab.uk.com/products/sleeping-bags/andes/andes-800.html
Rab has very realistic sleeping bag temperature ratings, which unfortunately doesn't apply to many other companies and here you need to be especially careful when buying.
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| keber19. 10. 2013 22:19:07 |
I have Ferrino Nighttec 600 bag for 7 years already, comfort at -4 and extreme at -20. Then it cost 20.000 SIT, which today would be about 100 €. At temperatures few degrees below zero I sleep in it just in shorts, and it's just right. When I went to Kilimanjaro, last night before ascent was about -10 degrees, and slept nicely, of course dressed in sweater and long pants. Anyway, warm and cheap, minus of this bag is considerable size and weight around 1.5 kg. But it's still like new, I use it max twice a year. For temperatures above zero I prefer Camp ED150, which has only half kilo and accordingly small packed size, but still you can easily sleep near zero in it.
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| viharnik10. 10. 2013 08:30:40 |
Maybe Nighttec somehow still covers the cold. Otherwise, if the bag doesn't warm enough (own heat between bag wall and body), we lose quite some energy at night, which we'd need for ascent next day. Usually even if very cold night, it's better to be in sleeping bag dressed only in underwear, to touch inner walls as little as possible (insulating air layer, which is the only one that warms)
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| Karletto14. 10. 2013 10:49:33 |
now I looked at ads a bit. Looks like some synthetic and others down. What are the differences?
Probably already in weight, maintenance...
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| viharnik14. 10. 2013 15:44:28 |
Synthetic bags are much better resistant to moisture pull from surroundings, stronger ones insulate very well too and can be used as winter model without problem. They are somewhat heavier than down ones and easier to maintain, also cheaper. They say synthetics are made for rough use.
With down bags we achieve greater insulation with less weight due to down. More down density in cuin, better it insulates, lighter they are. Important that shell is Pertex, which protects down from moisture. Bags with down-feather mix are no worse, a bit heavier, but retain compactness even if some moisture and inner down doesn't clump when washing the bag, so dries faster. Important that bag is comfy and has some space when we lie in it, so intermediate insulating air warms us well. Good also if bag has additional waterproof nylon protection at feet. Usually take strong three-season synthetic bag around 800-1000g loft, down one 600-800g. If bivouacking in winter outdoors then need quality bag at least 800g-850 cuin or 900-1000g with down feather. Don't forget thermal mat for winter without which you can't imagine sleeping on snow. Good night!
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| a514. 10. 2013 20:00:22 |
I'd say the best value is to buy top quality synthetic bags. Top quality down is about 3-4x more expensive than synthetic.
For down, the peak technology now is treating the down with special brews to make it "sort of" water-repellent. A few years ago this tech was still in its infancy, now these things are supposed to be more perfected. Next season Rab sleeping bags will use this technology. Waste to buy new stuff that's not the current peak tech. 
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| viharnik14. 10. 2013 20:17:03 |
Good advice a5. Those who need low weight and excellent insulation properties usually go for quality lightweight down bags. These are mainly expeditioners, high-altitude alpinists, travelers whose other gear already adds quite some weight. Down is used in places with drier air, i.e. high mountains. Of course all gear from crampons onwards to say skis that aims for low weight also has a "good" price, but such a product isn't necessarily better than a heavier one. More expensive bags are bought in spring for the next winter at a better price.
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| milesdavis14. 10. 2013 22:50:58 |
Among synthetic sleeping bags, the current by far best (per various tests) is Mountain Hardwear UltraLamina 15, since no seams and thus cold spots, but glued and achieves exceptional results for synthetic. Very light for its temp rating and retains warmth excellently even damp.
Link 1
Link 2
Regarding down ones, the current atmosphere is as @a5 describes. Peak technology sounds a bit overhyped, it's more commercial effect and psychological prep of potential buyers. If we browse the web a bit, we notice real mania for this "technological miracle". Most enthusiasm from traders, sellers and some testers who live off it. Of course tech progress is welcome, down treated with nanomaterials for better water resistance sounds good, but per many opinions - for now doesn't meet expectations. Waiting for tech peak means soon it's no longer the peak.
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| Martin M.27. 10. 2015 22:13:22 |
The issue is in "fill down". Higher fill power doesn't tolerate seams because feathers would escape. Hence gluing and waterproofness.
When down is better and when synthetic, you can read in the post "Down or synthetic".
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| gregcs128. 10. 2015 07:08:51 |
If you have too much money...
link
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| viharnik11. 11. 2016 12:19:59 |
At Rab it won't be available in December and long into spring anymore, it's exceptional now.
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| viharnik11. 11. 2016 12:29:46 |
If you can't carry 1220g up there, it's better to stay in the valley.
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| piotr11. 11. 2016 12:43:12 |
By a warm stove such a bag is far too much
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| palček plezalček11. 11. 2016 12:43:36 |
Viharnik, it's not that someone can't carry it, but for the temps it's meant for, there are lighter ones on the market. With the bag you'll probably carry crampons, one or two axes, clothes, drinks, food, rope, 'hardware'. If going on a 'hike', maybe you don't care how much you carry. If tackling serious winter climbing, you'll rethink the weight you'll haul.
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| viharnik11. 11. 2016 13:00:39 |
This bag has first comfort -11C, limit -20C. For that temp range, there's no lighter one on the market. In winter with bags with upper limit around -10C there won't be much deep sleep. Rab has temp scale very conservatively given, now even more safety-oriented, which some firms ignore, they prefer to add a few minus degrees for easier sale . Now Annapurna has very similar Marmot Lithium, similar temp characteristics and material. Otherwise Rab has special light bags, see Rab Infinity 300 or 500 with 850 Quinn down, ca 700g or 800g, you'll be lighter by half a kg of bread. Generally real climbers are machines hauling tens of kg gear up walls and mountains.
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