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| opazovalec23. 11. 2016 08:49:05 |
The tooth of time sweeps away all human masterpieces. The shelter on Vošca still had the look of a masonry building just a decade ago, a year ago the window lintel collapsed and in a few decades there will only be a pile of overgrown stones there.
Igor's picture of the Italian barracks under Triglav is good proof. I wonder if anyone has a picture of the covered shelter on Vošca. Was it just left to the tooth of time or did they help it collapse with a sledgehammer?
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| ana23. 11. 2016 09:29:15 |
The tooth of time is a funny thing, easy to say but harder to explain smartly.
What if some "Francelj" comes while I'm on summer vacation and starts smashing the load-bearing corner of my house with a sledgehammer because the facade is peeling a bit?
When I return from vacation, the neighbors tell me: Francelj said this shack is falling apart anyway, so he'll help it along. Yeah, in a few decades it would only be a pile of bricks and wood anyway, he'll just clean it up. And why not demolish it if he decided so?
Is my house maybe a protected monument? No.
So where's the problem? Because Francelj doesn't see the problem!
Of course it's a problem because I'm the owner. But even such objects in the mountains belong to no one, even if they're not protected monuments.
Specifically, the one that was so beautiful as in the old Igor photo under Triglav, the owner is the state. And the state is who again???
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| IgorZlodej23. 11. 2016 10:32:13 |
I assume participants in the discussion know the mentioned articles:
http://www.gore-ljudje.net/novosti/113409/
http://www.gore-ljudje.net/novosti/113407/
We all know that the renovation and expansion of Triglav Lodge on Kredarica was done, you can see who all participated on the sponsors' board in one of the dining rooms of the hut. Despite plans that could have been implemented with much less funds on the western side of Triglav, it didn't happen. Mountaineering politics interfered, which was in no way favorable, let alone allowing the highest hut on the Primorska side. Something similar happened a few years earlier (mid-70s) with Peter Skalar's new hut on Kanin. It was said, the hut will be at this location (Za Konjcem - outside all normal access routes) or there won't be one.
In the first case it was about a few 10 m, just like now with a few cm regarding the height of Triglav. Obviously sometimes the saying doesn't hold: a few cm up or down, well the gentler sex knows that best  .
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| gj23. 11. 2016 17:41:24 |
We're not on this earth to judge others. It's hard to imagine today what hot heads there were in '45, when they hammered and mistreated you for 6 years, not to mention the atrocities that happened. My opinion is, I wouldn't spend even a day in a building that gave shelter to the enemy.
Not quite under the circumstances, but an interesting or tough debate. Best regards
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| grega_z_brega23. 11. 2016 17:48:20 |
gj but you probably use their paths?
Otherwise you can also look at such a building as a small piece of "reparation".
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| palček plezalček23. 11. 2016 17:58:14 |
...and part of history. We use many Italian objects, as well as Austrian and German ones.
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| gj23. 11. 2016 18:10:29 |
I use them - yes. But it's not about me or us. It's about the opinion of people who lived in those times, I assume. That's just my view on the matter.
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| margu5023. 11. 2016 18:20:25 |
Let me tell a bit from history. In the 70s we had to give some funds as help for road construction in the then state, so-called bonds. It was said we would get it back, which didn't happen. For the construction of the House on Kredarica they told us we could redeem those bonds as a donation for the hut construction. Most of us signed it, whether the money was actually transferred for construction I don't know.
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| gregazorz27. 11. 2016 10:58:40 |
Greetings all,
I'm glad that the content of Škodič's and my posts has taken hold so well and even those who initially opposed are summarizing them.
The list of Italian buildings, both military and mountaineering, is made, work is also being done on a full publication of all locations and what is happening with them today.
As for the Vittorio Emanuele III barracks, since 2012 it has been owned by the Republic of Slovenia, managed by the Ministry of Defense. Before that, the owner was the municipality of Bovec. The plot was drawn up already in Italian times, the ruins are still registered today as a building with a surprising value of just over 100,000€, not including the land value.
So it's about destroying registered state property. Whether only the sledgehammer owner is fully guilty here, or the neglect by the municipality or state or TNP, everyone can judge for themselves.
The last truly preserved mountain barracks in the Julian Alps is above Soriska planina, where for the second decade a shepherd and his goats have been bivouacking, consequently heavily destroying it. Given the popularity of Možic, both from Podbrdo and Sorica directions and the entry of the Italian mulatiera in the register of touring bike paths, PD could really make a hut there.
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| lino27. 11. 2016 15:56:27 |
Gregazorz, thanks to you and Škodič for the data that was pretty hidden or covered up. It's known that for registered state property the state is most often a bad steward. Here all the culprits hide behind collective responsibility; meaning no one is guilty.
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| viharnik27. 11. 2016 16:09:23 |
It's completely impossible that the thick walls of Emanuele III, built with solid stones, have practically disappeared from the face of ZTP in just ten years . An old architect told me that concrete doesn't age with years, but on the contrary, it hardens and strengthens more and more. I was up there in summer about ten years ago, when everything was still standing, the structure was then excellently connected to the upper floor slab, part of the tin roof was still visible right on the south a bit lower in the gully, inside the rooms there was snow in summer up to a couple of meters deep. Impossible explanation that winds and winters did their thing on strong stone walls at least half a meter thick, in between some third force must have cleverly intervened destructively , so that of the barracks there's no longer soul or hearing, sight at all none
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| gregazorz27. 11. 2016 18:21:41 |
Viharnik
The concrete slab protecting the back wall of the barracks was still standing in October 2014 and wasn't damaged at all.
In August 2015 when I was back at the barracks it was demolished, the iron rebar rods cut off.
About concrete and aging though...the guardhouse where Žakl's weekend is, time does no harm at all...obviously only the building next to it.
But it's funny. Italian cartographic house Tabbacco corrected the markings in the new map edition, but mixed them up in old Italian habit. Now both Morbegno and VEIII have them.
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| miri27. 11. 2016 19:13:09 |
Same concrete, different people but memory and warning remain.
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| tinky27. 11. 2016 20:13:59 |
Were we talking about Jerebikovec?!?!
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| ana28. 11. 2016 07:51:30 |
Not at all tinky, this time it was about the construction at Jerebikovec, which still has some malignant metastases elsewhere in our hills. But all have one common denominator. That was talked about
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| lino28. 11. 2016 16:50:51 |
Gregazorz, obviously the guardhouse was built from much better concrete than the barracks. That's why the guardhouse still withstands the tooth of time. I don't believe any person would destroy the barracks under the watchful eyes of TNP rangers.
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| lino28. 11. 2016 16:56:46 |
Gregazorz, obviously the guardhouse was built from much better concrete than the barracks. That's why the guardhouse still withstands the tooth of time. I don't believe any person would destroy the barracks under the watchful eyes of TNP rangers.
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| miri28. 11. 2016 16:59:43 |
Let me conclude with the words of prof. Tomaž Pavšič, the first and most deserving unraveler of the secrets of "Stara meja", after whom the data of the contribution are summarized, especially the last paragraph: "Let us not allow time and our carelessness to erase the memories of our past, through which our nation fought to final freedom and independence. Let us be respectful to our ancestors and our history also in new times."
Anka Vončina
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| mirank28. 11. 2016 17:16:51 |
Lino, it still holds that it's better to create the appearance that you're o..., than to open your mouth and sweep away all doubts about it.
The bunker is converted into a "bivouac" read weekend for some, it's closed and thus protected and accessible only to someone. About the alertness of the "authorities" in this case I wouldn't...
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| lino28. 11. 2016 18:02:36 |
Mirank, the alertness and sharp eye of the "authorities" were very much present when I in the afternoon jumped from Pokljuka to Blejska koča at Lipanca. Upon return a greeting with a ticket awaited me on the windshield. I parked a couple of meters from the asphalt road.
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