Definition of an alpinist
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| ljubitelj gora15. 07. 2014 21:25:38 |
In winter, though, I don't know; already some gully above Ljubelj is alpinistic or every peak over 2000m in a certain period.
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| miri15. 07. 2014 21:25:47 |
Definition, like telling a pedestrian he's a swimmer when he gets to the water.
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| lynx15. 07. 2014 21:36:56 |
lg, definition of alpinistic route is so easy (especially from KA PZS), that it's no good starting point for discussion who is alpinist. By it even ascent to Ograde from saddle almost/barely fits in.
Topic title just makes confusion.
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| Žiga2216. 07. 2014 08:56:40 |
Uh, LG, you kinda missed the mark here. Climbing difficulty has nothing to do with it. After all, the Short German Route in Triglav is grade III, and hikers (trekkers) wouldn't even think of going there, but for alpinists it's already a nice tour.
First, what is an alpinistic route? The Alpine Commission has it nicely defined:
http://ka.pzs.si/besedilo.php?pid=2
Definition of alpinist in English dictionary:
alpinist (ˈælpɪnɪst) n
(Mountaineering) a mountaineer who climbs in medium-sized glaciated mountain areas such as the Alps
and according to SSKJ:
alpiníst -a m (ȋ) someone who engages in alpinism: to be an enthusiastic alpinist; high-altitude, winter alpinist
"Alpinism is an activity that includes climbing, hiking, skiing in the mountain world especially on pathless terrain[1], colloquially it's understood as climbing. In the Dictionary of Standard Slovenian it means alpinism knowledge about the Alps and alpinism, climbing high peaks on unprotected, unmarked routes is alpinism."
So in principle, we can say that anyone who engages in alpinism is an alpinist.
Using the term alpinist for anyone who climbs a bit here and there is like saying that a mountain rescuer is anyone who has ever patched someone up with a plaster in the mountains. 
In practice, it's fortunately a bit more structured, when you look at the classifications of the Alpine Commission for official titles. To have the PZS alpinist title, you have to meet certain conditions, including the alpinist exam, which isn't that easy to get to.
http://ka.pzs.si/besedilo.php?pid=6
Within KA, there are also pre-titles - junior alpinistic trainee, senior alpinistic trainee.
So yeah, you can call yourself an alpinist if you climb the Y gully in Begunjščica in winter. But anyone who then asks you a bit about rope maneuvers, basic alpinistic knowledge, climbed routes, will quickly know what kind of "alpinist" you are. 
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| ljubitelj gora16. 07. 2014 10:41:13 |
OFF: I explain it to myself like this at home: over 100m wall with grade IV alpinist, conditionally also III+ 100m with grade II-III hiker, in winter north side, min 50° with height at least 100m alpinist, below that hiker.
@lynx: I know that part, but I won't agree on that. The point is that alpinist seriously climbs not climbs I and 100m  pa je then alpinist. Ferratas are all in a row hiking up to E.
P.s. OFF means, that this is not commented on, this OFF appears often on other forums and is skipped
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| Žiga2216. 07. 2014 10:53:55 |
Hehe, no 'home-style', it's all nicely defined, even if you stand on your head. Read the KA links I posted.
Climbing route (so where you climb and use the three-point principle for progression, don't walk), at least 100 meters, minimum grade I. In principle, protection should already be used here, although in practice...
E.g. Slovenian Route in Steni is grade II-III, and even "hikers" don't walk it. Alpinism besides difficulty (climbing is just a small part that the alpinist has to deal with) is characterized by a lot of other things, including quite demanding orientation in the wall.
North or south side, no difference what you climb up. Except when you want to say if it's winter or summer ascent (depending on the season).
Otherwise we're talking about a definition, which is a pre-agreed term under which conditions it is used, no room for nagging and "home-style" explanations.
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| Žiga2216. 07. 2014 11:17:16 |
Karavanke are part of the Alps.
The origin of the word alpinist and alpinism is that this sport developed in the Alpine region.
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| lizika16. 07. 2014 11:24:16 |
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| Žiga2216. 07. 2014 11:27:40 |
Well, I'll help you with English too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karawanks
Wikipedia is of course never 100% reliable source, because anyone can change it. Try to find some reliable source (textbooks, etc.).
I found this too, where it says similar:
http://www.summitpost.org/karavanke-karawanken/152510
"Karavanke belong to Southern Limestone chain of European Alps."
Given that summitpost.org is a website quite similar to hribi.net and edited by experts, I'll take summitpost as more credible source. 
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| dprapr16. 07. 2014 12:20:48 |
You've complicated it with this alpinist.
It's quite clear: you are an alpinist with us if you've passed the alpinist exam and in no other case. Once you have the alpinist exam you can be registered or not!
But of course you can climb nice things even if you're not an alpinist. But usually someone introduces you to alpinistic knowledge before -
some alpinist or guide!
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| Sujcic16. 07. 2014 14:48:34 |
These dilemmas belong on the alpinistic forum. We, the general šodrovci(?), for whom hribi.net is intended, don't understand at all.
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| pikica116. 07. 2014 15:39:29 |
Now there will be peace, Žigec the alpinist has gone to Belopeška lakes just like he promised yesterday.
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| Žiga2216. 07. 2014 18:15:38 |
I'm back already. 
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| IgorZlodej16. 07. 2014 18:57:31 |
And what did you see, do you have any picture of the bivouac, I saw from above that it has a roof and still stands under that rock.
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| miri16. 07. 2014 22:28:42 |
He went back (to check).
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| Žiga2216. 07. 2014 23:24:19 |
Then you saw pretty badly. Roof is only over the collapse, bivouac is moved.
@miri
Instead of sitting on your ass and babbling, you could contribute something smart to the topic or about conditions.
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| IgorZlodej17. 07. 2014 05:48:59 |
Žiga's pictures also interest my friends from Fužine. From the top I really see worse, and there are ledges here .
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| JusAvgustin17. 07. 2014 05:59:28 |
Zlodej set him a trap...
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| Žiga2217. 07. 2014 08:03:03 |
Yeah fuck it, you'll have to take my word for it without pics, because I didn't have the camera exactly with me (shouldn't we continue this in the Mangart thread?). If you doubt, you have every right to, after all this is a forum where everyone can write whatever they like.
But don't you have any photos? If someone really cares that much and doesn't believe me, let them go check themselves. Last I checked the walk there is still free.
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