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Fear of heights

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Lunatic6. 10. 2011 13:07:43
As long as there's protection it's ok velik nasmeh, you hold on and it's fine; worse are exposed unsecured sections zmeden, some scree, bad holds, ice... zmeden E.g. from M. Triglav towards Kredarica when it's practically icy without snow and you probe with your feet where to step zmeden

I suggest Preval via Bornova in good company, because the conversation alone weighs a lot and redirects thoughts a bit, up top štruklji for refreshment nasmeh. Maybe further to Begunjščica via Kalvarija along the ridge, which isn't overly exposed, but good ridge training eek

Best regards.
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VanSims6. 10. 2011 13:32:40
@Lunatic: if you mean that summit ridge right before the top of Begunjščica, it seemed quite exposed even to me who has no fear of heights. This path is about 3rd degree on the scale I posted, up to there I agree it's not too much, although there are spots when you come out of the forest that would reach 2nd degree.
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JusAvgustin6. 10. 2011 13:35:36
A nail drives out a nail... they say. Anyway: I have a buddy with crazy fear of heights but I safely brought him up and down from winter Jalovec. Now he hammers via ferratas like mad (though won't hear of alpinism anymore... velik nasmeh) but anyway he says: "as long as I'm clipped in it's all good (so psyche plays a big role here), when clipping over I do it as fast as possible...
Ascent to Jalovec in winter he experienced as second in the rope team, worst was the traverse. But easily climbed the winter chimney...
Fear of heights we started beating with ascents to Begunjščica, via gullies, Vrtača, Palec, Zelenjak, all Jalovec masterpieces...(winter ascents). When it got tough I belayed him, though I aimed for him to be as independent as possible, which he eventually became. He's done almost all secured paths in Slovenia, now eyeing abroad... This weekend he did Via della Vita along the ridge and is super proud. Soon planning to take him to Slovenska in Steni to see progress... Rightly so! But I'm sure at least half or more is psychological factor nasmeh

Best, Juš
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Lunatic6. 10. 2011 14:00:37
Van Sims, maybe Begunjščica ridge is indeed exposed, but still steep slopes below you not abyss, psychologically surely easier, depends on conditions though, mud, grass, wet rocks, ice, in such the ridge would be nasty too eek not that narrow zmeden. Interesting also e.g. Storžič from Kališče, steep slopes give psychologically better feeling than some depth, though slip result same eek. Difference also if wall on one side or on ridge, and climbing up or down, slowly you get far and by gradual progression you can improve things or when you reach your limit you stop nasmeh

Juš, good company is worth gold esp. with experienced trustworthy person at start, probably your psyche worked for both and helped buddy a lot... nasmeh
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JusAvgustin6. 10. 2011 14:12:34
probably means SW ridge... right?
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Lunatic6. 10. 2011 14:29:56
Yupnasmeh
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heinz6. 10. 2011 15:32:36
A lot also depends on physical fitness: condition, rest or fatigue on the demanding section, injuries etc. All this can instill or diminish the necessary confidence. Knowledge (please let someone else complete this) and physical ability to move in demanding terrain are hugely important here.
To an equal degree also from the way of thinking: if the head is constantly only the worst scenario, it needs to be forbidden entry before it starts to plague us! It is also useful to recall past positive experiences, when we were first scared of something, later realized there was much exaggeration... and how much energy we wasted unnecessarily! We all know the experience that when walking the same path for the second or third time, we often wonder—what could we have been so scared of the first time, etc. Useful to know we have nothing to lose if on the (for us) demanding part we devote as much time as possible—as much as possible. Time is an ally, no hurry! Only thus, slowly, can one face this opponent, because if rushing, one is basically still closing eyes before it.
I myself most often struggle with fear (exaggerated sense of responsibility) for people going with me to the mountains. This >animal< is quite stubborn too.jezen
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nanica9. 10. 2011 23:18:09
Hello!
I think it's good that Puma started this topic. I've been hiking in mountains for about a quarter of a century and haven't gotten rid of the fear of heights or exposure yet, and it seems it will remain. I've walked quite a few paths that are described in various guides as partially demanding to demanding. But I don't dare venture on paths advised against for the vertiginous. So some paths will remain unreachable for me despite great desire. Every slightly more demanding path instills in me awe and respect, and I never overestimate my abilities. I might even try some more demanding secured path but I change my mind mainly because I'm afraid I'll be in the way of much more experienced hikers. To help you understand me better, I'll describe a situation that happened to me recently: After ascent to a popular peak via a path marked as demanding on this portal, the descent followed the same path. When walking, I'm never rushed and always go carefully. I think I'm not among the slowest, as I complete all paths in the times given in guides or on signs. There were quite a few people on the path, and to those who were very fast I said they could go past me. But a man almost catches up to me at a run. When I see how much he's in a hurry, I immediately step aside for him so he won't nervously pace behind me. But he yells at me for stepping aside in such an inappropriate place (I stepped higher onto a rock from the path, and the cable was completely free too). I'm convinced that if I hadn't stepped aside immediately, he would have cursed me saying that I'm hindering his descent because I'm dawdling.
So: besides vertigo, on harder paths there's also fear of much more experienced people who have no patience for us less experienced. I've also heard rude remarks to those who aren't among the most skilled (where is he rushing, better stay home,... etc.).
To avoid misunderstanding: I'm by no means lumping all experienced people together here. But such cases take away quite a bit of my courage.
I'm interested in your opinions on this topic.nasmehnasmeh
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ljubitelj gora10. 10. 2011 00:28:33
Replying only to user
@nanica


I started four years ago; suddenly mid-mountains interested me, those smaller hills up to 1600 m above sea level, so I went as high as possible by car, just to have less walking (at that time I was still overweight, later I slimmed down), on hribi.net I chose only such hikes that are easy and nowhere dangerous, I circled all easier paths from Debele peči all the way to the main Karavanke mountains, KSA every new year I was more interested, walked easy paths, then one day I agreed with my brother that we would go to Kepa from Dovje, that path is harder than from Belca and I would classify it among demanding paths.
This is the path we took:
http://www.hribi.net/izlet/ravne_kepa_/11/97/2624
Everything nice and fine, at the start a hiking path, then come the cables, pegs and pins, then total panic, maximum fear, shaking, completely terrified, I barely made it to the bottom of those protections, meanwhile telling brother why he brought me here, his encouraging words, some small advice on how and what to do on a secured path, and we were already beyond the secured path, later traversing a steep slope, there I was afraid again but we went cautiously on to the top of Kepa. A year or two passed, meanwhile walked demanding paths, then more tempted me, so I went to Triglav, via Planika to the top is a demanding path, to Kredarica a very demanding path, that was my first even more demanding path, hikers went ahead of me so I followed curiously, I was scared but we quickly reached Kredarica, then only descent to Krma awaited me, same year Prisank, easier up, ridge down in fear and next time I wanted even more, that was partly last year and this year, when I tackled really extreme secured paths (Triglav-Plemenice, Mrzla gora, Via Italina, Via della Vita etc.), the last two are extremely demanding. From my sentences you can see that I started slowly and nicely, as others advised me, today I dare say there is no secured path in Slovenia that I could not climb. If I mention, Via della Vita on Vevnica and traversing Ponca stayed most in my memory but there I went with a group, Via Italiana on Mangart is also about the same. I have mostly overcome the fear of secured paths but not completely; one must know that every secured path requires a safe step, grip and thoughtfulness, basically it's not for "rushing", if someone has all main ascents behind them it's not smart to play "hero".
It was unimaginable back then, I accidentally found the picture on the hard drive1
view back on the climbed secured path2
that I saw for the first time3
it was horrible4
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heinz10. 10. 2011 09:16:54
@nanica: it's completely right that you're cautious on demanding sections and process them slowly! That's how all smart hikers should behave, but unfortunately some consider themselves a level higher—circus acrobats. You shouldn't pay attention to such people, as they can not only be very uncultured, but put everyone around them in serious danger! Such people should be banned from more crowded demanding paths; let them show off somewhere in solitude... but that way they'd lose the important charm of mountain hiking: elevating themselves above others. They should be punished!
It's clear that some are naturally a bit faster than others, but that doesn't justify any impatience etc. Whoever can't safely overtake the person ahead without words at the appropriate place must stay in the valley, where there's more space!
Interestingly, usually middle-aged individuals (city type) speak up and not the young, who are actually still the most capable... And it has to be a Slovene, because foreigners (even those from the south) know the rules of European hiking culture.
The inferiority complex is a big problem among Slovenes, everywhere they want to make themselves big... and much time may still pass before healing.
@nanica, so don't pay attention to such people, and if he grabs you, yell back at him with all (even greater) right! ...Why didn't he just stay home, where he'd have enough space for his impatient fidgeting? e.g..
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VanSims10. 10. 2011 10:47:09
It's the exact same mentality as e.g. in huts (brawling, drunkenness), psych, various remarks you experience on the trail,... The aim is provocation and self-proving and healing one's own traumas! More and more uncultured cattle are going to the mountains. And let the decent cattle grazing there not resent me for comparing them to them.velik nasmeh

I also think you shouldn't pay attention to such idiots. Nor argue with them. You know it's not smart to argue with an idiot. mežikanje Let him pass and amen. If he doesn't want to, whatever. Here you have to be ice-cold uncompromising and not let yourself be provoked because then he achieves his goal.

And yes, I also notice that not only Westerners but also those 'uncultured Balkan people' are often more cultured than Slovenes. Sad! But I know not all Slovenes are like that. But we just have a higher percentage of idiots.
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VanSims16. 11. 2011 09:25:32
***puma***: "today I dared to go up that steep one on Nanos, but would it qualify for 1st grade?"

If it's the steep one from Razdrto I went up it last weekend. Psychologically it didn't bother me, but it's already around 3rd grade in my opinion. So if you managed it, that's very good.

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Nanook16. 11. 2011 10:47:52
I'd like to go on this pathPredmeja - Otliški maj (Path along the Edge), but it says there that the path goes along the edge of cliffs. How along the edge is that? I mean, do you go right on the edge looking down, or is the path a bit more inset and otherwise (possibly) slippery, but you don't look down somewhere or there are trees, bushes in between? Thanks. nasmeh
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VanSims16. 11. 2011 11:55:29
I went on this path in spring. As far as I remember there might be some sections near the edge, otherwise it runs through meadows, forests,... Besides, there was bora blowing then and it didn't blow me away mežikanje

The path is very nice and it's good to extend it to Otliško okno and the Snail cave, if you feel like it even to Sinji vrh.
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puma16. 11. 2011 16:49:10
Heey!

Yes, yes, from Razdrto! Fun, right? nasmeh

Well, I was quite proud of myself when I reached the top. I'll definitely repeat it, I like it because there aren't too many ropes, but enough for a beginner, I think.

Managed it velik nasmeh, so I'm skipping these grades a bit.
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Janez5216. 11. 2011 18:24:07
Nanook
I walked the path along the edge at the end of October. From Predmeja to Sinji vrh and back. The path has the name Path along the Edge but approaches the actual edge only a couple of times. If I remember correctly it gets closest to the edge on the ascent to Dolski maj. But there the path goes through forest so it doesn't look exposed. If possible I'll attach a couple pics of the most exposed part.
1
2
3
4
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Nanook16. 11. 2011 20:21:56
No no, this time not asking for the dog, but for myself. It makes me dizzy looking at your pics. zadrega I'd probably slip here for sure. Or sit down and they'd have to come get me.mrk pogled But even ladder (or chair or steep stairs) gives me problems.
Thanks everyone, we'll try. In extreme case I can always turn back. nasmeh
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Lunatic16. 11. 2011 22:03:48
Okay, trustworthy company helps a lot zavijanje z očmi
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Nanook20. 11. 2011 21:31:07
Lunatic, I believe, but I don't like hiking in company, traumas from childhood (or sports days in elementary).

Well, on this path we unfortunately had to turn back soon this time, some sections were still too close to the edge for now. But since the path is so nice, we'll try again.
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jany198021. 11. 2011 17:45:36
@Nanook one question outside this topic...
I clicked on your profile and spotted 2 beauties... Curious about the breed?
bestcool
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