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| turbo18. 10. 2010 17:55:32 |
Ljubitelj gora,
money in this and similar cases of course plays no role. The "principle" is important. Those who know Bojan_A, either personally or from contributions he regularly posts, know he's not a "daredevil". That he doesn't go until he can't and then calls for help. Quite the opposite, he's an experienced and trained mountaineer. Proof is in his rescue case. Soberly judged (both) when to stop and what to do (call GRS). If not, GRS would likely have intervened anyway, but then black chronicle would be really black.
The point is:
how many psycho-physically unprepared and/or unequipped mountaineers who fainted or twisted ankle or similar minor injury and were rescued got a bill and paid it.
I fear it's like in traffic. A cute blonde gets just warned by cop for not wearing a seatbelt, while I have to pay those tens of euros. 
The rules of the game aren't clearly set, in my humble opinion. Or rather, who drinks is roughly known, who pays not even approximately 
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| JusAvgustin18. 10. 2010 19:20:21 |
again discovering warm water. the matter isn't arranged as it should be and a few of our signatures (I'll sign the first sensible document) won't change it! but I also sign under turbo's post!
But smartly!
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| ljubitelj gora18. 10. 2010 19:30:31 |
Bla bla bla - that flies at philosophers, if even injured paid bills and were properly equipped, then tell me, how do I additionally insure myself, say where to join so that insurance also covers rescue costs if something happens to me.
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| turbo18. 10. 2010 19:47:23 |
On three pages you have answers like on a plate, if that's not enough look at the debate on the same topic on Gore-Ljudje.
"best neighbor"  has everything covered
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| ljubitelj gora18. 10. 2010 19:49:38 |
I don't feel like it, bro, but is it PZS or the nearest PD.
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| JusAvgustin18. 10. 2010 19:52:53 |
then don't ask, or even better. don't go anywhere, then NOTHING WILL HAPPEN TO YOU...
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| ljubitelj gora18. 10. 2010 19:53:55 |
...no chance, I can't...I've become addicted to mountains. Some are addicted to alcohol, some to cigarettes, others to drugs, me to hills....mountain lover 
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| janna18. 10. 2010 20:39:02 |
Mountain lover, you have no clue what you're talking about ... and you don't even know how much an hour of helicopter flight actually costs. A good suggestion is that you really don't go anywhere! In case a picture falls on your head at home on the couch, the rescuer comes to get you, and that help is included in basic health insurance ... if by chance you didn't know that.
You need to think to contribute at least a little to some result.
Matta, I sign under your letter to PZS, and I also help write something.
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| ljubitelj gora18. 10. 2010 20:54:29 |
What did I write now, something like that?
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| IgorZlodej18. 10. 2010 20:57:00 |
I'm afraid our insurance companies have no interest in this type of insurance, because if they did, they would have offered some favorable package long ago. That PZS with its about 50,000 members would move anything in a positive direction, I strongly doubt, especially since the percentage of risky cases is extremely small. I myself, like many, found a solution with neighbors on the shady side of the Karawanks, of course hoping I never need to use it.
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| potepinka18. 10. 2010 21:17:14 |
@turbo: blondes have this bad luck that we're stopped by blondes in uniform who much prefer to look at (and overlook something for) some dark-haired mountaineer...
(this is off-topic)
On topic: In PZS we're connected through our PDs we're members of. So one option is for everyone in their home club to initiate a proposal for changes in insurances. Opportunities for such initiatives are group hikes where more people gather, some clubs have pre-New Year meetings, St. Martin's hikes, then general assemblies...
Probably if several clubs "press" PZS, they'd be forced to negotiate more types of insurances with the insurer. As a federation they can agree on better (even uniform) terms than individual clubs. Insurance policies are apparently "living" things that can always be added to, corrected, improved...
I also agree with previous ones that such insurance wouldn't mean everyone who doesn't feel like walking calls rescuers suddenly. We don't call AMZS every time we don't feel like driving...
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| lepenatka20. 10. 2010 09:00:46 |
Matta, given how active Tadej and the other guys are who launched this big, interesting and very useful hribi.net project, they'll probably be best able to help technically.
As for mass participation, I think that won't be a problem either.
Until you yourself run into something like BojanA, you don't even think about it.
Nice day to all
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| potepinka20. 10. 2010 09:23:56 |
Matta, I understand that PZS concludes the insurances and maybe I wrote awkwardly. But PZS can surely always supplement, change etc. the already concluded policies under which we're insured.
But it's like this, if no one shows interest, things usually don't move...
Since PZS consists of PDs, I just wanted to suggest that we can also start some action in our home circles. That way more signatures can be collected quickly. Difference between a few hundred from the portal or thousands from a hike from Litija to Čatež (but contact with organizers needed), plus some media might mention a sentence or two about the issue...
Well, before I digress... The more addresses reach PZS, the sooner... (whatever it will be).
The guys will surely handle the technical implementation on this portal.
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| IgorZlodej20. 10. 2010 10:53:08 |
I see you've found the solution in PZS, that PZS which since it exists hasn't found even a solution so that insured, i.e. PD members with paid membership fee are entitled to daily compensation in case of sick leave due to mountain accident. For such cases one had to insure individually, e.g. within life insurance at some provider, or collective accident insurance at work, I luckily have both, plus minimal savings. But don't misunderstand me, I'm not against insurance and would be the first to use the service within PD membership. Surely someone among portal users is better informed about insurance or even employed at some insurer and could explain better and point solutions if any. As far as I know, none of our insurers offers it and PZS won't force it if no profit, i.e. so many thousands insured and so many rescues (uninjured-lost). Now there are maybe 3-5 such cases yearly and some borderline where bill is decided, i.e. where great negligence is present, like when night catches someone without light in mountains, can't descend in dark, gets lost without map or didn't prepare well for tour etc.
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| jozo21. 10. 2010 15:11:32 |
http://www.grzs.si/?MenuID=1&NewsID=983
Maybe it will turn out well for Bojan and his climbing partner after all! The last paragraph is especially interesting. If that's the case, then I really see no reason for issuing the bill! Regards J
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| heinz21. 10. 2010 17:26:15 |
If what was written some time ago in the last comment on G/L holds true, that the one who helped or wrote the report should handle the issued bill, I don't even know why explanations, apologies etc. are needed.
Everyone should clarify once and for all so we know what to expect from each other in a given situation..
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| šerpa21. 10. 2010 17:41:21 |
Completely correct from GRZS side, let's wait what the experts at the Administration for Protection and Rescue will say. That various state authorities interpret regulations completely their own way (and then the state pays fat compensations to the injured on account of their blunders!!) we are already used to...
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| zippo22. 10. 2010 10:32:34 |
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| šerpa22. 10. 2010 17:14:27 |
Matta, well written. I hope the PZS leadership is seriously thinking about this problem and that the president's response is not just lip service. Winter will be long and I hope spring will bring something positive from the top of PZS.
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