Replacing electrolytes (in powder)?
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| Keko24. 07. 2012 22:39:14 |
I'll give purely personal opinion on this, which may not be correct, it's just my thinking based on all facts I've gathered in life so far and they make me think a lot.
If we look a few decades back we'll see there were many very hard jobs and tasks people did without any supplements and still managed well, had few of some diseases common today. They ate large amounts of simple food giving enough energy and various vitamins and minerals needed for hard work lasting every day from dawn to dusk and much harder than today's hiking in mountains.
Does anyone wonder why today athletes have more gut problems, chronic gut inflammations, sudden deaths, heart stops and other diseases they barely knew before.
How do you think organism long-term tolerates intake of concentrates that irritate mucosa excessively and what consequences in few years. Does anyone tell you absorption of some ingredients is limited and most excreted and body doesn't absorb them because in wrong unnatural form.
Or that these concentrates destroy flora and fauna in your digestive tract, ruin bacterial and enzyme composition, change metabolism.
Isn't it smart to ask: why do I need this crap? To jump higher, faster, stay longer on path, reach Škrlatica before someone else? Why all that?
Isn't better to eat natural proven food, drink fluids in natural forms and listen to own body when it says needs rest, natural regeneration.
Does anyone say you slowly become addicted and feel without these things you don't function anymore.
As long as so many questions and uncertainties around these supplements and until someone unequivocally proves they work, not harmful to organism, I won't use them, because I function great without.
As I wrote, this is my thinking and may not be correct.
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| ljubitelj gora24. 07. 2012 23:24:12 |
Finally Keko discovered warm water and said it as it is.
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| ljubitelj gora24. 07. 2012 23:28:33 |
Nowadays everything is somehow processed, full of strange additives and supposedly not harmful to health, yeah short term probably not long term though, it's not said that all natural, bio healthy and vice versa, diversity and biggest emphasis on unprocessed gives us least health problems.
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| urbancek25. 07. 2012 07:58:41 |
Keko, all that is true, but you forgot to read my P.S.. We don't eat as healthily as before... And that's why today it's not like it was more than 10 years ago... More than 10 years ago there were no hypermarkets with all kinds of (good and bad) stuff etc. There was no capitalism... 
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| TanjaM25. 07. 2012 08:42:34 |
Personally I always drink only water, so I always took only water to the mountains too. This year we decided to try an energy drink - more diluted than it says in the instructions, because we had problems with suddenly running out of energy (and I always nibbled almonds and raisins in between). And the difference IS there, of course it can't replace conditioning you don't have. Same in my "youth" when I trained, drank water, but on competition Isostar. If you drink energy drinks only when you really need them, I don't see anything wrong, because as urbancek says, chemistry is now in everything we buy and even my raisins probably aren't pure as a tear.
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| viharnik25. 07. 2012 08:53:53 |
Energy drinks besides replacing minerals, salts and vitamins, also help prevent lactic acid buildup in muscles-muscle fibers. We drink it during activity and after the hike, when the body is still in motion (pulse, warmed muscles), for more effective regeneration. Concentration should not be exaggerated (added original plastic spoon to 1.5-2l water).
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| dprapr25. 07. 2012 09:25:16 |
Keko, well written!
I fully agree that for recreational sports we don't need any supplements. Perfectly normal to do a 10 to 12 hour hike without special drinks and special food. If the body then needs more time to return to original state, nothing wrong with that. We know the consequences in top sports, where they constantly use some "supplements" and always rushing somewhere. Every injury, every fatigue must be fixed immediately,... I don't know an older former top athlete without health problems!
In my opinion more important to go on the hike rested, without health issues, without binge drinking and heavy food the day before departure.
On the hike mainly ensure enough fluids and light food.
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| jprim25. 07. 2012 10:39:10 |
The topic got dragged on  ... don't mix energy preparations with our diet - food, groceries that are faaaar from healthy eating. I wouldn't now about that, because that debate belongs on another forum.
10-12 hour hike, yeah recreation 
LP!
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| turbo25. 07. 2012 10:40:13 |
Every person is their own and thus has individual needs, which in the best case are similar to others, equal no. That is, there is no universal recipe for drinks and food that would suit wider masses. And I'm sure that even those of us who are satisfied with what we consume regarding drinks and food and think we've "found the right recipe for ourselves" could definitely improve something.
Given forty years of going to the mountains you can believe me that I've tried and tested everything that was available here and abroad in those years. And I ate a lot and despite that at the end of the day I was completely exhausted. And I drank a lot and was not only at the end of the day but even a day or two after completely dehydrated.
There was a period of exclusively "legal chemistry" and a period of exclusively "what nature offers".
We need to realize that we shouldn't focus only on that day when we go hiking. The day before and the day after are equally important, the first as preparation for the "feat" and the second as regeneration day. Nothing pleasant if you're hungry like a wolf and dehydrated as dry as a desert the day after the hike.
For food on a normal mountaineering day that lasts at least 6h (preferably more) I have four thin slices of rye bread and some slices of smoked cheese. And either two bananas or at least two pieces of other fruit. If the hike includes climbing and not just walking or if the backpack is heavier than usual I also have one or two energy bars with me. Drink always diluted energy drink, 2l in a bladder, which I sip like a little child throughout the day. If heat is forecasted, I take an extra liter of water, if I know for sure I won't find it on or by the path.
In winter additionally I carry 1/2 l hot unsweetened tea with honey added.
Definitely breakfast is the base, I in summer preferably butter, jam, rye bread, fresh squeezed juice and a large cup of coffee. In winter now and then eggs with some or other addition (bacon or cheese or both or even some tomato . . .)
For me it's very important that after the hike I'm neither hungry nor thirsty, even less that I'd be hungry or thirsty a day or two after the hike.
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| Janiel7425. 07. 2012 11:12:24 |
Accelerade at Maxximum and some Isotonik....here some talk only about water...if a person dehydrates (loses electrolytes etc) water just doesn't suffice! The body needs the lost substances back. Simple.
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| Keko25. 07. 2012 13:28:41 |
Janiel74, water suffices all living organisms on earth and I don't know why it wouldn't suffice humans too. Also regarding electrolytes things are overhyped. Human has electrolytes in stock for more than one day. You replenish them after the hike during regeneration and food you eat after. If the hike lasts several days then it's replenished with some saltier snack and some more varied meal.
I think there are quite a few of us on this forum who can confirm from own experience that water fully suffices us. And that a person is tired and exhausted after a strenuous hike is completely normal. The body tells you: "you know what Tinček, enough for today."
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| jprim25. 07. 2012 13:37:37 |
One thing to understand, every individual has a different metabolism, especially women, some of us will just drink isostar or ... on long hikes, others water, it's very simple, everyone just decides for what suits them ...
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| GregorC25. 07. 2012 13:44:40 |
My opinion on such studies is that the results are tailored to the payer or study sponsor. Even if they emphasize independence so much.
As for the use of these things themselves, there are so many different ones that you can't put them all in one basket. I use more diluted drinks like isostar, dextro, cedevita..., plus a lot of water. Usually on a hike I have 1.5 to 2 l of water and about 0.5 l of drink. Depends on the duration of the hike. Up to 2 hours I take only water.
As for the finding that you gain weight from these things, that's nonsense squared. Gaining weight means you overdid it with them, just like with anything. If you consume more calories than you burn (since the body has them "in stock") it's normal to gain weight. So you need to eat with your head and know yourself how much you need.
I think every individual best knows their own body how and what and knows what suits them. Some overdo it with various energy products, others with avoiding them.
Best regards and happy trails in the mountains with water or isostar
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| Janiel7425. 07. 2012 16:13:29 |
Keko , water suffices for all living beings. Yes, but in normal conditions. If I go on a 10-15 hour hike then it's not enough for me. So I prefer to replenish the missing substances, energy, so that "low-energy" state doesn't catch me It depends on each individual of course, a lot also on the weather... If it's hot and humid, the body loses necessary substances much faster....100 people, 100 wonders.
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| Keko25. 07. 2012 17:54:02 |
Janiel74, I don't dispute your claims at all that you need to take care of energy intake during the hike. We differ in the way. I'm more a proponent of the traditional way of intake, meaning with food that is as natural as possible (bananas, chocolate bars, dried fruit, seeds, some strudel in the hut, jota, etc...) and for fluids, water. Believe me, on the hike you mention, I won't lack anything. You're more a proponent of some special preparations in the form of concentrated powders, energy drinks etc..., which someone cleverly markets and sells very expensively.
Everyone knows that a 15-hour hike can't be just on water power.
However, there are quite a few of us who doubt these things too much and wonder if all this is necessary.
These are just thoughts and confrontations of different opinions.
Otherwise, stick to your recipe if you think it's right, I respect your opinion.
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| Janiel7425. 07. 2012 18:21:57 |
Keko I don't dispute yours either. Of that traditional stuff you listed I eat everything except jota, beans and those things really not Nuts, muesli, bananas of course, I know e.g. dried unroasted apricots are very good, chocolate bars I don't miss...only I pour with on average more accelerade than youbeef broth in between also fits, I don't refuse pasta, but not every hut has it...haven't discovered the ideal recipe yet, I admit...I think a lot depends on what primoza says about nutrition the day before...
Keko one more thing...the actual question was about electrolytes and not about nutrition and I said that at the beginning too...
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| Keko25. 07. 2012 18:30:16 |
Yes, some really claim that regarding nutrition the hike starts already a day before. With that I would agree.
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