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| DejanD18. 07. 2014 00:17:00 |
No tour carried out by PZS guides is at participants' own responsibility. That doesn't exist - the guide is responsible for the whole group of participants from departure on the tour, during the tour itself and up to the end or return home. So don't talk off the cuff if you don't know the matters. I tell you from my own experiences, because I am a guide myself and the head of the guiding section in my club.
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| VanSims20. 07. 2014 19:24:23 |
@DejanD: Does this say in some law (where of course it must define who is a guide, what conditions they must meet, licenses,... for tour participants it's to check if they are really led by a person who meets those conditions otherwise no responsibility) or just in some PZS acts? In the latter case it's worth nothing.
Responsibility is nothing else but criminal-material-damages, otherwise it's as if there is none. On various moral and similar responsibilities, nobody cares today.
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| Skovik21. 07. 2014 21:48:48 |
Anyone who makes an event for a hike, guide or not, is responsible for the participants from start to end of the tour, whether they want it or not (doesn't matter at all what the participant says). Responsibility is transferred only in the case that within that hiking group there is someone who is a guide or leader with a higher category than the organizer.
Of course it comes into play only if someone gets injured and decides to sue the organizer. In all other cases it has no weight.
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| Žiga2222. 07. 2014 08:45:31 |
@Skovik
Do you mean that only for organized events?
If, say, I invite a group of friends (say they already have some small experience with mountains) to the hills, am I automatically responsible for them? I don't mean moral responsibility here, but more from a legal point of view.
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| Skovik22. 07. 2014 11:02:03 |
@Žiga22
As far as I know, just by making a notice, invitation, event, you are legally responsible. Just that it's in black and white. It doesn't matter if the thing is organized or unorganized. But if you arrange it over the phone, in person, it's supposedly friendly. At least that's what I learned on guiding courses.
Again - sounds horrible. That doesn't mean that if someone gets injured, you'll go to jail  But if it comes to a lawsuit, you're in a very bad position. Unless you're a guide and did everything by the rules. Just supposedly there were very very few such cases (in Slo). And even those when it came to children accompanied by teachers etc.
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| Žiga2222. 07. 2014 11:30:49 |
Aha, so then it's enough if you make an event or group via Facebook and invite people? Interesting how far social media reach today and what influence they have.
I know it sounds stupid, otherwise among real friends there wouldn't be such nonsense about dragging through courts. But once the bill for rescue costs for a couple thousand euros comes (luckily we don't have that yet, but I think it's just a matter of time), I'd bet many friendships would evaporate and blame would be pushed on the "organizer".
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| Skovik22. 07. 2014 12:51:29 |
Žiga, I completely understand you. I've had my own FB group for almost 5 years, been organizer/initiator even longer and always wrote "not responsible bla bla bla...". Somehow you feel better thinking "now they know they go at their own risk". But last year I started doing guiding courses and learned that it's not so...
It's enough to make an event and invite folks and you're responsible. Mainly because of that the group is closed. To (get to) know potential participants before going on a harder tour. When you're once among chimneys and pitons it's not cool to find out you have one or more afraid of heights who want to bail home where they were...
I also believe with (real) friends no problems with participants. But you wonder what parents, relatives would do if something happened... Well thinking aloud. Very likely nothing. Had close encounter with GRS 3 years ago and it made me think a lot about my safety and participants' safety. Read somewhere and true - people drag to courts for every shit these days.
Could elaborate a lot here so... Anyway go to mountains enjoy with friends as always. Check weather terrain conditions gear fitness of participants and if pegs there no need worry too much about "what if...". Never 100% safe shame to stay home or hike alone because of that.
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| ljubitelj gora22. 07. 2014 13:05:30 |
What's wrong if someone hikes alone in the mountains   ? Isn't that something special? You experience the mountains in a different light than in company, peace, solitude.
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| Skovik22. 07. 2014 13:44:39 |
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