World Championship in Mountain Running
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| tol7. 09. 2010 10:56:16 |
As a Kamnik resident I'm a bit disappointed with your view of Kamnik, but OK.
Where to start?
Kamnik and tourism. OK the situation isn't rosy, but it's not that bad either. Why should we shove huge hotel complexes into every tourist part of Slovenia?
You further claim that in KG we'd get pristine nature. But not in Kamnik? Kamnik is much more than Velika planina and Grintovci. There's a lot of nature, I believe there are more undiscovered beauties and hidden corners in Kamnik than in KG. But that's my personal opinion.
Accommodation capacities.!? Have you ever followed the OI where someone summed up they only have 25 km to the competition venue. But the distance bothers you, which you connect with Terme Snovik and Kamnik. Let me tell you that distance is 8 km. Do you want to step out of the megalomaniac hotel directly onto the starting line? Is that how you imagine nature? I hope not.
Kamnik can offer much more with its diversity than some big tourist center/ski resort.
How do you know that everyone likes such big hotel complexes. I associate mountain running with minimalism. And Kamnik and its offer should develop in that direction.
Big hotels? NO! Because there are enough elsewhere. We need to offer variety and a different experience of nature. This part of tourist offer is quite neglected in SLO.
Were you at the presentation of the teams in Kamnik Center? http://kamnican.si/17693.html
Further: race broadcast? Have you wondered how? How to cover a 12 km course with cameras, 3 different start locations? Given that mountain running isn't exactly number 1 sport in SLO, the economic calculation wouldn't justify a broadcast. Broadcast costs money and I'm asking would you cover sports and other events that would only cause minus in your wallet?
I believe RTV could provide two cameras for broadcast, but what would that broadcast look like?
One camera at the finish and one somewhere in between? From that perspective you can't make a satisfactory and interesting broadcast. That's just how it is.
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| klm7. 09. 2010 12:29:07 |
In the Kamnik area there is plenty of disturbed and pristine nature. Definitely nice places around. But saying Velika planina is pristine seems exaggerated to me. Given all the scum that comes up on nice weekends to get drunk, shit and crap around, and numerous weekenders who drive to the top with cars, dumping feces into the nearest sinkholes... luckily Velika planina is so big that all this mess gets lost.
In nice weather it's also the surrounding panorama that makes the plateau attractive. Unfortunately not all foreign competitors got to enjoy it. They were deprived of it. The organizer couldn't fix that. That day fog lingered around the peaks above Kranjska Gora too. Otherwise the question arises, which of the peaks around Kranjska Gora should the runners climb? Velika planina was chosen precisely because car access is possible.
Truth be told, tourism in Kamnik is still in its infancy. Various factors contribute to that. As a new Kamnik resident, otherwise from Radovljica, I notice many similarities between the places (especially the old town centers), but the tourist vibe in Radovljica is at least one level higher (although not the best). Urbanistically Kamnik is losing identity, or rather it was completely degraded already in former Yu, when they built various factories right next to the old town center, today these are disturbing, abandoned, decaying buildings, quite unattractive to look at. Perhaps in the future one of them could be turned into a hotel or hostel, or built in its place. But that's a matter for another section.
I think the Mountain Running WC was carried out correctly and well. It couldn't attract excessive attention, as this athletic discipline is still quite in infancy here (we practically have no systematic training or development of such athletes, except a few exceptions), and given the quite miserable state in our athletics - let anyone contradict me, but that today none of our "top" athletes runs 10 km under 30 minutes or marathon under 2:20 min. speaks volumes - it remains more or less a recreational branch or discipline.
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| Bojan_A7. 09. 2010 13:15:40 |
Well, I didn't say the event was organized poorly. On the contrary - it was organized very well.
What I want to say is that it would make much more sense to organize such events in places where practically everything is already there. That's why the ski World Cup is in Kranjska Gora and not on Krvavec, where again there's nothing around.
But I completely agree with Klemn that it would be hard to find a sensible course for the race in KG. That's why I gave KG as "for example". We have other developed places like Mariborsko Pohorje, where there would be courses.
Race broadcast would be feasible. If they can cover a ski course with cameras, they could do a running course too.
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| micamaca7. 09. 2010 13:20:44 |
Where on Pohorje do you have anything suitable for mountain running? Who doesn't understand the word "mountain"? Pohorje is more hill than mountain, at least for me
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| tol7. 09. 2010 13:28:38 |
Bojan A regarding the broadcast.
You cover 50% of the ski course with a camera because competitors start at time intervals such that the next starts while the first is still on the course.
The course is open and with a camera you can cover up to 500 meters of terrain.
I can't imagine how to cover a running race in the forest where everyone starts at once. That's very difficult, believe me in downhill mountain biking the World Cup covers only 30% of the course with cameras, if not less, because the forest obstructs the camera view. And still it's different because starts are individual not group.
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| Bojan_A7. 09. 2010 13:29:41 |
LOL: Where does it say in WMRA rules that mountain running must be exactly in "mountains"? Gradišče isn't exactly some crazy mountain either, but the running course there was great. Next year for the up-down running world championship, they usually run in loops anyway, with only 100 or 200 m elevation difference.
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| micamaca7. 09. 2010 13:46:39 |
I know. But Pohorje is even less of a crazy mountain than Velka... at least the elevation difference from Stahovce (or Stranj) to Velka is bigger, about 1100 m.
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| BT887. 09. 2010 14:10:17 |
Micamaca, have you ever been to Pohorje I think the slopes are pretty steep, haloooo folk
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| gams447. 09. 2010 14:52:24 |
Bojan, you are one of a kind, no match for you here, you write all sorts and complain. Shame those few euros for open were too much for you. What about all volunteers who slaved 3 days from school to the mountain, who took leave, their time so Sunday race succeeded fully. You know, talking is easy, doing something is hard. Shame you didn't come help, then you'd see how and how much effort was put in and no one complained. Know this: if everyone who worked voluntarily demanded payment, this WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED. No hard feelings  
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| micamaca7. 09. 2010 15:10:53 |
BT88: Yes, by bike
gams44: I agree with you. From first hand I know that tons of KGT Papež members worked all year voluntarily helping organize the whole race, not to mention other volunteers. The Stranj firefighters, all volunteers, managed traffic all Sunday morning and tried to make everything run smoothly.
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| BT887. 09. 2010 16:04:55 |
But I know everyone worked hard, kudos to all, but 45€ entry fee is really a bit steep. Others organize races too just . But what do you get for 45€ or again in Gorenjska 15€ entry and tea. In Italy you get jersey or poles worth the entry or gift bag here minimum T-shirt e.g. Črna Prst Saturday camping chair hot meal drink of choice hat Dol or previous year poles sleeping bag. Question is do we do race for profit or for runners. Mountain running Saturday Mala Gora this year described in paper as little hell but people did it with soul all respect.
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| Bojan_A7. 09. 2010 16:12:43 |
Without volunteers there wouldn't even be plans for the race - fact. There were around 400.
Sorry, but for me (I'm student) 45 € is too much. I already spend lots of money on entries and try to be rational. And money wasn't the only reason I didn't run, in the morning I didn't feel too good and cancelled participation then. Good thing in Slo it's democracy and I can do what I want. That's why I could enjoy cheering for (our and foreign) competitors.
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| klm7. 09. 2010 18:03:40 |
I agree with Bojan. Such entry fee almost sent me broke too, even though in pre-reg it was "only" 30 eur. Entries abroad are comparable but sponsor coverage is incomparably larger.
As for TV broadcasts: if even the annual international (European?) athletics meeting in Celje isn't TV covered, how the hell would TV broadcast "third rate" running event uphill!? Realistically look at state of our athletics federation, realistically see what rulers in that org do for its popularization. Just look at results of our top athletes. Resultwise we sink into background of European athletics, not speaking world level, but our neighbors Croats face same problem, luckily they have Blanka Vlasic.
And if no such broadcasts of athletics meetings, how will we broadcast some WC in mountain running. OK: people heard of Jolanda Ceplak, and of course Kozmus; he actually gave false feeling our athletics is on some high level - but was just golden exception like Blanka with our neighbors. Who the hell from spoiled average Slovenian public heard of Zarnik, Kosovelj, Alic or ultimately Ambrozic!?
Of course whole course could be nicely broadcast on small screens, but no media interest at all and given various states, also at AZS, won't be for some time. Sad.
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| ljubitelj gora9. 06. 2013 12:49:02 |
Hi. I'm interested what pace runners have, how much elevation you do in one hour.
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| klm9. 06. 2013 15:41:42 |
Impossible to answer satisfactorily, speed depends on many factors; slope, surface, conditions etc. Just few examples: run to sv. Primoz above Kamnik. Measured distance 3.4 km, 382 m ascent: Sebastjan Zarnik at record run 15:42 min, averaged 4:37 min/km. Another: J. Wyatt, record holder to Grintovec 1:15:42 h ran 7:47 min/km, or over 1500 elev m in 1h!
Solid mountain runner does over 1000 elev m in 1h (in Grintovec case all who ran to Kokrsko sedlo under 1h, did almost 1200 elev m to there.
Ultimately add that for vast majority participants hard to call mountain runners real runners, most of ascent they actually walk not run!
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| Bojan_A9. 06. 2013 18:09:42 |
On average, in a mountain running race, only the top five runners run most of the time, others walk. The point of mountain running is to overcome the course as fast as possible, regardless of style - run or walk.
At vertical kilometers where in just two km of course 1000 m elevation gain is overcome, one walks almost all the time anyway. Times are killer - around 1900 elevation gains per hour.
Generally, what I have said many times holds. Run is always faster than walk. But run uses much more energy than fast walk. The more the slope increases, the smaller the difference between run and walk. So at races I prefer to walk short steep sections to save power for later attack.
If you overcome in 1h 10min 950 elevation gains, that's pace just 800 elevation gains per hour, almost anyone can do it - even old men and small kids. For comparison - at this year's Roblek Run 74-year-old Janez Ambrož did 960 elevation gains in 1h 9min 55s. I ran 41min 45s (my by far worst result) average 1390 elevation gains per hour. Simon Alič at his course record ran a bit over 1500 elevation gains per hour.
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| ljubitelj gora9. 06. 2013 22:03:32 |
How much max elevation gain did you do in one day? It starts to "take its toll on me" around 3000 elevation gain, because from water alone, Frutabel (for now the best for me) tires me, exhausts me. My BMI is around 25.
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| redbull9. 06. 2013 22:12:22 |
from water you won't last long
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| redbull9. 06. 2013 22:17:16 |
sj is the healthiest,, but it sure doesn't give you energy, or rather weakens you (local saying)
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