List of forums / Slovenia / General talks / Covid-19, Ukraine / Page 192

Covid-19, Ukraine

SamoK22. 07. 2021 12:15:19

Excellent!

(+2)

Becar22. 07. 2021 12:23:51

According to the latest conspiracy theory (written here on this forum) antivaxxers have allied with the government and together act against vaccination. Madonna they must be rich to offer more than covid mafia!

Samo News?

(+3)

Becar22. 07. 2021 12:38:32

And in these 5/5 is canadian can can Lino already included, or is that 6/6?

(+3)

magroman22. 07. 2021 12:49:23

primoza/constantly heard slogan- it's still happening in real life, but you're not in this sector.

Citizens aren't even close to 70%-how many got vaccinated for health and not for PCT?

What protection measures have you taken, I'm really curious- not socializing with you is the most sensible

And you see nothing else but vaccination, vaccination...
If you feel threatened avoid socializing with us healthy people.You'll be alone soon.Cekar.

For every broom a handle grows, one will be found for you too.

lp,
Good luck

(+6)

lino22. 07. 2021 12:55:27

Becar, you keep offering and serving us some links of dubious truths and half-truths, some chewed statistics and bedtime stories. As a storyteller you're unique, just time has slightly run you over. Wake up already from your dreaminess. Maybe you're even consuming something concrete and it's affecting your attic, that you're hallucinating like that? nasmeh

Maybe you need a refresh dose for the attic? We have better stuff in stock than your sljadoljed and koljač! nasmeh

Your special offer (sljadoljed and koljač) has expired too. Quality of your sljadoljed and koljač is anyway positive zero.

(+2)

PV22. 07. 2021 13:34:10

Serious question to the ardent (and unfortunately here increasingly rude) advocates of vaccination...

Answer at the end, first some number play. Official ones, from corona tracker and NIJZ, so no one accuses me of "operating" with some random numbers.

Facts:

- in Slovenia there are over 777,000 fully vaccinated people or 37% of population
- so no one nitpicks that minors can't decide themselves and parents decide for them, for this "study" we use the percentage of full vaccination of adult population, which is 44%
- official number of recovered is approx 250,000

Speculation:

- no one knows exactly how many got vaccinated for "status", how many because they believe it's good for health reasons. From people I know personally who got vaccinated, at least 80% did it solely for status. And so no one accuses me of knowing only that kind of people, let's say very "safely" that status vaccinators are only 50%, i.e. approx 388,000. Same for those who supposedly vaccinated for health reasons.

- no one knows exactly how many recovered would have vaccinated if they hadn't gotten sick. Again let's say half. And if we continue with the ratio of "status" and "health" vaccinators 50/50 as above, there would be 125,000 of the latter

So, 388,000 vaccinated because they believe it's good for their health and 125,000 potential like-minded, that's 513,000 people or 29% of all adult population of Slovenia.

Since we're talking about people with voting rights, the definition for or against vaccination could be seen as some kind of referendum, so 29% for and large majority, a whopping 71% against. And how vaccination interest looks currently in Slovenia, the referendum result won't change for a long time, if at all.

Now the question I mentioned at the beginning: Where do some - let me use the same word one of them once used for me - creeps from the "referendum" losers get the right to here and elsewhere lecture the "referendum winners" and insult them in all sorts of ways?

Isn't the essence of democracy that the majority is right?

And otherwise, sadly probably hopeless, but this message should be heard and seen by our government and many others around the world.

(+4)

SamoK22. 07. 2021 13:57:08

>Isn't the essence of democracy that the majority is right?

Actually NO!

(+2)

SamoK22. 07. 2021 13:57:43

>Isn't the essence of democracy that the majority is right?

That's actually the foundation of fascism, if we're already talking about fascism.

(+1)

magroman22. 07. 2021 13:59:44

PV- thanks for the numbers

Since I'm more of a peasant type and live by some healthy common sense and not by political dictate, surely or probably I can't describe these numbers as nicely as you.
Of course my IQ is smaller than Primož's, but surprisingly I'm still healthy and not bothersome to the environment.

And probably the vaccinated gentleman will have a hard time challenging NIJZ numbers now. Or will he?

lp,

(+4)

gorolazka22. 07. 2021 14:15:44

Primož joined the morning socializers. Did he take vacation to pile up here?
I admire that forum loyalty, although when you all mention percentages and fractions, behind Primož probably 8/9 forum members don't like it and don't agree with electric shocks.

(+4)

Becar22. 07. 2021 14:21:41

Look look, Becar isn't so alone in thinking as the single men's club would like nasmeh

@PV: excellently done real analysis, where you even took too much reserve to your disadvantage. If I summarize your analysis: Minority lectures the large majority and has us by the ass. And then fascist taunts like SHUT UP, various lobotomies, calling murderers etc.... I offer every one of these insulting fascist deviants a get-to-know meeting with me, you don't know how friendly I am, but I much prefer talking about delicate things live than up here. I've offered meetings many times, but the little asses squeeze, don't know why....

And what's the biggest proof that covid freaks are seriously jumping in their asses? Even proverbially phlegmatic canadian cancan Lino exploded with insults velik nasmeh

(+3)

Becar22. 07. 2021 14:28:37

Samo wins again:

The essence of democracy is NOT that the majority is right. That's the essence of fascism!

Flour has always been white, now it's BLACK!

(+2)

magroman22. 07. 2021 14:39:11

hahah

essence/foundation of fascism SamoK?....hmmm

lp,

(+3)

SamoK22. 07. 2021 15:12:22

>the majority is right in democracy.

You're all mixing politics and morality!
Politically in democracy the majority rules.
But that doesn't mean it's right. "Right" is not a political category.
(No wonder you're all foaming at the mouth here, because you don't distinguish that!)

(+1)

SamoK22. 07. 2021 15:13:40

Fascism operates with the category of "absolute right" of the majority, not democracy.
Becar and primoza are here prime categories of absolute right.

(+1)

SamoK22. 07. 2021 15:19:37

I was talking about you and Becar. If you think you don't have absolute right, say it sometime!
And yes, fascism doesn't know shades of "right". Only it has right, all other views are hostile.

(+1)

VanSims22. 07. 2021 15:24:57

>>Isn't the essence of democracy that the majority is right?

>Actually NO!

Actually not in such situations. In crisis situations the current government must act decisively. Where would we end up if we decide not only in parliament but even by referendum.

Your house is burning, and you'll ask family members whether to extinguish or not. When you're so enthusiastic here about NOB and partisans: What if they, when the enemy attacked us, asked if we decide to defend or surrender to the enemy and let him do what he wants with us (by the way, Hitler wanted to relocate us behind the Carpathians from where we came)? And the consequences of resistance were worse than the consequences of measures now against corona. Short-term it would have been better to submit. What would be long-term, especially if allies didn't manage to defeat Nazi Germany, I don't dare think.

And a more recent example: .com crisis in 2000. If chancellor Schroeder asked Germans whether to implement reforms or not, they certainly wouldn't support him, as they grumbled against them anyway. Well, Germany today would be economically at the level of France or even Italy and it would only get worse over the years.

With this the numbers @PV completely lose meaning, as well as whether the referendum would be successful or not.

In crisis situations there is no democracy. We can play it when solving everyday problems.

(+1)

SamoK22. 07. 2021 15:29:17

>In crisis situations there is no democracy.

That's practically a slogan in the birth of fascism. Many fascists used it!

No, it doesn't hold. Democracy is rule of the majority, checked at elections. Government then acts within its powers, which include decisions that may not be liked at that moment.
But that doesn't mean there is no democracy, don't be ridiculous! If you use crisis situation to eliminate democratic institutions (which is happening in many places in the world, starting with USA), we're on the path to serious troubles.
And definitely we are mrk pogled

(+1)

SamoK22. 07. 2021 15:54:11

>I don't understand what you mean by morality in democracy either. Democracy is by definition rule of the people.

Democracy is a political concept. When you were raving about how the majority has "right" in democracy, you started forcing a moral category into democracy. Not me, you.
That democracy is rule of the people is again an excellent fascistoid view of democracy. "People" is not a concept with which modern (European) democracy operates. Fascists or fascistoids like to operate with it very much.

(+1)

VanSims22. 07. 2021 16:04:47

"Democracy is rule of the majority, checked at elections. Government then acts within its powers, including decisions that may not be liked at that moment."

Yes, that was my point. So not only in crisis situations, but also otherwise it won't just ask people by referendum what and how. Look, we gave you mandate to lead the country, referendum is exception for really fateful decisions (independence, EU, NATO and say also arbitration, if I list important ones so far), for things that can be agreed in parliament don't ask us (opposition too of course: don't blackmail referendums for every trifle or only when you think government makes really big mistake, not when it just suits you politically). If you're not capable of that then bye, someone else will come to the helm.

And yes, government's work is then checked at elections. And it's quite enough that elections are every four years, not always when some fool invents them and for that purpose, either resigns or (or if doesn't force them with that) pesters the government until his wet dreams come true.

"If you use crisis situation to eliminate democratic institutions (happening many places in the world, starting with USA), we're heading to serious troubles."

Yes, that's true. Although, if it's a real crisis like this covid wasn't (war, severe natural disaster), unfortunately, some democratic institutions and procedures need to be suspended a bit. The devil is of course that rulers sometimes itch fingers to prolong that suspension even when the worst is over.

Page:

...

192

...

You must log in to post a comment: