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| Becar28. 12. 2020 21:11:05 |
Primoza, which one did you do? Green one?  Which one is then for pumpkins? Red one?
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| palček plezalček28. 12. 2020 21:14:46 |
I think we didn't understand each other. Here it's no longer primarily the decision on vaccination: yes or no, but the question of the consequences of the individual's decision, which can/may be of a significantly different nature than they would be in case of your not going to the Andes. 
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| dprapr28. 12. 2020 21:25:29 |
So now someone who doesn't get vaccinated and doesn't go anywhere will have consequences. What kind? I think you're exaggerating a bit. For now we're still in Slovenia, not in China. And I'm convinced we'll remain in it. One vaccination up or down.
But it seems reasonable to me that I must get vaccinated if thereby I protect myself and everyone I will socialize with at home or at work.
But what seems more critical to me is what we do with our data, and everything we load onto our devices.
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| Becar28. 12. 2020 21:29:42 |
If the majority doesn't want to get vaccinated, it must be respected, that's democratic. Just like it was necessary to respect who won the last elections, no matter how bizarre.
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| Hribolaznik28. 12. 2020 21:30:52 |
I'll comment a bit more on the statistics, which can be misleading... On the table of countries Slovenia has 1.2 deaths per 1000 inhabitants, placing it third in the world... But comparison between countries isn't always the most sensible. Namely, our beautiful Slovenia is fairly evenly populated, which doesn't apply to other countries. The Stockholm region with approx 970000 inhabitants reported a week ago (yes Swedes haven't reported at all since last Wednesday) 3114 dead, which is 3 dead per 1000 inhabitants, i.e. more than double our statistics.
And also the New York and New Jersey regions: these two are particularly interesting. They have 2 dead per 1000 inhabitants. Why interesting? Because they produced most of their dead in March and April, when they were late with measures. That is, drawing a parallel: what could happen in Slovenia if we hadn't introduced mandatory mask wearing and lockdown? The number of dead and hospitalized we've accumulated so far we'd reach in 1-2 months... That would be catastrophic.
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| Becar28. 12. 2020 21:32:39 |
Yeah, sure, according to you, Hribolaznik, we would be 5x worse than the worst. Think about countries like Brazil, Cambodia, Thailand, Bangladesh.... Given their lifestyle, half of them would have already died there. These rankings are completely useless because countries report causes of death differently. This is now officially recognized; before that, everyone laughed at Potrč when he said it.
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| palček plezalček28. 12. 2020 21:47:42 |
@dprapr, it's not about those who wouldn't opt for vaccination not being able to go on vacation to another country, but if you look at the comment before my first one, it'll tell you everything. For such people who wouldn't do it, the basic right to opinion and thus action according to it and consequently to work is easily taken away, which ultimately means the right to survival. Or very banal; you have a child or parent in another country and need to care for them, but you won't be allowed there if not vaccinated. And no, we don't live in China, which doesn't mean we live in a soap bubble called 'ideal world'.
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| journeyman28. 12. 2020 21:53:34 |
Simplified: China today is the West tomorrow. Step by step we're heading that way.
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| dprapr28. 12. 2020 21:58:22 |
I understand you and know it's not just about vacation abroad. But I don't understand what's the problem if we had to get vaccinated to protect our health. If it's conditioned on something inappropriate then we'll blame ourselves for unnecessary opposition to vaccination. Especially if vaccination proves effective.
That there's fear at the beginning due to side effects is understandable. To be honest I wouldn't want to be among the first vaccinated either. But that's how it is everywhere someone has to be first and someone last.
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| palček plezalček28. 12. 2020 22:05:40 |
It's not about fear, nor about whether I intend to get vaccinated or not, but about the right to decide on one's own life. The problem is exactly what you wrote in the second sentence ("... if we had to get vaccinated ...") - in the lack of choice, i.e. coercion.
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| journeyman28. 12. 2020 22:12:23 |
Palček plezalček, that's a lost battle on this forum. It seems to me that many here don't understand that this is about the most basic freedom of choice, what you put in your body and what not.
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| dprapr28. 12. 2020 22:13:07 |
Correcting the second sentence so it's not controversial.
"But I don't understand what's the problem if we get vaccinated to protect our health."
Wishing you a nice evening further and less pessimism.
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| dragon28. 12. 2020 22:54:47 |
We all have in common that we want to get rid of this plague as soon as possible and normalize the situation ASAP. But for that you have to do something. Some do nothing at all. They don't respect measures because it violates their freedom and human rights. Didn't download the app because they're so important that Hojs would surely track them or even Janša himself. And now they're already spouting nonsense about vaccination.
Bang your head twice nicely against the wall and then ask what your purpose is in this world. Care only for your own ass and your rights or something more?
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| grega_z_brega29. 12. 2020 00:09:27 |
You're one fool for Begne, sorry, read what you write before you post
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| ana29. 12. 2020 07:52:04 |
Fool who didn't make it to Begn. Because at home too busy assigning quarantines to family members and sowing brilliant wisdom on forums.
That super wisdom is luckily harder to sow than seed
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| ppegan29. 12. 2020 10:43:31 |
I know I'm repeating myself, but I laughed heartily at certain comments in this thread. Especially the last two For some, that thought about human stupidity and its infinity comes to mind, which someone wrote a few pages back. There's no help for Bučko number 1 and his 3 supporters anyway, we've already clarified that
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| djimuzl29. 12. 2020 10:51:23 |
"Dry" bučko 1/1
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| SamoK29. 12. 2020 12:48:44 |
>it's about the most basic freedom of choice, what you put in your body and what not.
Here I laughed heartily.
You probably grow all your own food, drink water from the spring behind the house and have never eaten even one aspirin in your life, let alone a headache pill?
Hats off, if that's the case.
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| mirank29. 12. 2020 12:54:31 |
Nothing to laugh about, that's how it is. My neighbor told me that their daughter-in-law prefers to buy organic produce from Hofer rather than use vegetables from their home garden
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| SamoK29. 12. 2020 12:56:45 |
All whining about freedom is ridiculous. Freedom is an illusion, in the modern world there's definitely little of it. More or less we're all caught in the civilizational wheel. Try deciding to live without gasoline, electricity and phone/computer. How long would you last in such "freedom"?
Oh yeah, it's about "freedom" to "decide" whether to accept it or not, right?
Sadly, no. If the decision is only theoretical, but practically you're not able to carry it out, it's no freedom at all.
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