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| Viper23. 05. 2015 19:32:07 |
This new bivouac definitely doesn't belong up there. I think the one still standing is quite ok, but it could also be renovated if needed or a new one made as similar as possible. God forbid they bring it up, because this new bivouac really doesn't belong up here nor anywhere else.
Otherwise bivouacs must exist.
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| viharnik23. 05. 2015 19:54:32 |
Judging by the dissatisfaction with the bivouac I conclude you are still quite fresh generations.
As already mentioned by Rok Oman, the construction and erection of Bivouac II At the Lakes is a big project and financial commitment that could fail anytime.
But now you'll whine what doesn't please whom, while the participants have practically brought the project under the roof.
Whatever stands there under the Altar will be an invaluable asset for present and future generations, especially in these not easy times.
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| ZeK23. 05. 2015 19:59:55 |
Daaam
and why should I just come to terms with the new bivouac? and with Žakelj's "bivouac" (the things aren't comparable, I list them together because for both "come to terms" applies), and with every other thing that some narrow group of people decides to make?
I won't just come to terms.
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| Viper23. 05. 2015 20:07:18 |
I hope this project fails.
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| lijaneja23. 05. 2015 20:13:55 |
Viper, not only will the project fail, there is no project because there is no money. But if they were to erect it, Poles and Czechs would destroy it for us in two years.
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| pikica123. 05. 2015 20:27:28 |
You guys are already whining about Lojz under every topic, and for you he is Dohtar of rotten gods. To move anywhere you need a line drawn on the picture, and a porter to carry winter gear behind you. Because you are way too frail to carry it yourselves. You can't even set up a dog kennel let alone a bivouac, leave Lojz alone.
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| ZeK23. 05. 2015 20:31:41 |
viharnik
whining? I'm not whining. I have some concrete questions.
- who and with which expert arguments accepted this decision at PZS?
- was the expert public, broader public (PZS members) involved in any way in the decision-making or in giving opinions, was there any public debate about it? or did a narrow circle of interested people just decide like that and then carry it out?
- was a public tender for selecting the architect for the bivouac published by PZS?
- is the bivouac replacement in accordance with the Triglav National Park Act, especially in terms of provisions on replacement construction (dimensions), materials...?
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| ZeK23. 05. 2015 20:33:32 |
pikica1
Lojza I'll "leave alone" as soon as he leaves our nature alone and stops destroying it with his structures, arbitrary carving of paths (into live rock)...
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| viharnik23. 05. 2015 20:37:15 |
And those old cans of all colors in the mountains are fine, you really are some brutes who probably can't even trim a hedge properly.
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| ZeK23. 05. 2015 20:40:15 |
viharnik
aha, then immediately insults.
you know, maybe we know how to trim the hedge.
maybe we also know how to plan tours so that we don't need bivouacs, and in emergency we know how to bivouac without them.
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| viharnik23. 05. 2015 20:49:30 |
Maybe you know even more, but you are extremely insulting to those who sacrifice their time, knowledge, money for setting up new bivouacs.
How you imagine life, I don't know. Just one such bivouac made in the mountains from the idea to helicopter support for placement and assembly on site surely costs as much as a studio apartment.
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| ZeK23. 05. 2015 20:51:44 |
viharnik
above I posed four questions, which one is in any way insulting?
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| viharnik23. 05. 2015 20:59:46 |
Look ZeK, your above questions are so stupid that there's no point saying anything.
Nowadays we wonder if ANYONE CAN do anything good for society, what consultations from PZS?! If it were the other way and possible, PZS could have done something in this area long ago.
Thank God Rok Oman has perspective, no tied hands, and through colleagues from abroad can carry out such a project.
Where you live, I don't know, because even in Switzerland bivouacs aren't built like mushrooms after rain.
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| Daaam23. 05. 2015 21:07:45 |
I won't comment on Žakljev bivouac (there's another thread). Interesting to me is that no one is bothered by 80-year-old tin, but the new construction is such blasphemy that I won't even dare to look at it..(Who here has expert credentials to determine what's right and what's not- I don't either!) What if that same tin 80 years ago also caused such bitter debates in some village inn, now that we're used to it, it's ok..
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| ZeK23. 05. 2015 21:18:04 |
viharnik
all of us who love our mountains try to leave as few traces as possible behind us and we pick up traces (trash) of irresponsible people.
on the other hand, do you want to tell me that those who would use the bivouac the most (alpinists and the most avid hikers) don't need to respect any rules? maybe I'm mistaken, but I'd expect them to be the most exemplary.
questions about involving the broader public, experts, tender, respecting the law are stupid questions for you? really? so some "chosen" team is above everything, why?
if you're such tough guys, then carry all the material for the bivouac up by hand, like the Jesenice people did in 1936.
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| viharnik23. 05. 2015 21:26:52 |
They had time to replace old bivouacs for at least twenty years. Did anyone volunteer during that time, do anything? They couldn't even cope with markings and overgrown paths.
Regarding expertise, read the article on Gore-ljudje again, who Rok Oman is, what he's a specialist in and which institution across the pond calls him for expert collaboration.
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| ZeK23. 05. 2015 21:30:08 |
I have nothing against Rok Oman.
but against this kind of self-will yes.
that's all.
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| viharnik23. 05. 2015 21:38:34 |
As an electrician I have no business lecturing even an ordinary Bosnian bricklayer, because I have neither the mileage of such works nor enough knowledge about different materials that complement each other in construction.
So I also think that none of us can lecture a recognized architect how and what, as if we would, if we would...
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| ZeK23. 05. 2015 21:59:43 |
viharnik
definitely.
I was interested if the decision for replacement was taken in the proper way.
and if replacement in these dimensions is even legal.
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| Branee23. 05. 2015 22:06:01 |
Some great architect won't get famous with bivouacs.. to most this modern design doesn't fit and I don't know why you have to jump and push your opinion to everyone. I respect yours, you give ours?
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