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| lynx28. 10. 2013 23:34:11 |
There's a big difference if you catch the night or it catches you.
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| Chico30. 03. 2014 20:20:01 |
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| _d_31. 07. 2014 06:49:30 |
I sincerely hope they have at least paid the membership fee in some PD in case of rescue. Congratulations, without gear on a very demanding tour!
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| Zebdi31. 07. 2014 07:33:36 |
Well, no need to exaggerate really. After all Gradiška for experienced isn't that very demanding...
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| Žiga2231. 07. 2014 09:15:39 |
As for equipment - given it's a very demanding marked trail, required gear should include at least helmet, climbing harness and self-belay kit... Which ain't visible in the pic.
Personally I don't give a fuck how folk hikes in the hills. For all I care they can go in their underwear. But if you're posting pics online, post at least properly equipped ones. You know, for good example, so no one gets wrong ideas. 
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| traceour31. 07. 2014 10:14:35 |
It's relative, what if ya have all gear by all rules but a stone flies into your knee? Yeah, chopper comes and they fine ya. And no fine without harness and s.v. kit on very demanding path (helmet was there).. Don't presume if no experience.. And no hard feelings B-) it's also so that for some difficult path extremely demanding while for some a walk..
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| traceour31. 07. 2014 10:14:37 |
It's relative, what if you have all gear according to all rules but a stone flies into your knee? Yeah, the helicopter comes and they fine you. And no fine before without harness and s.v. kit on very demanding path (helmet was there).. Don't predict if no experience.. And no hard feelings B-) it's also so that for some a hard path is extremely demanding while for some a walk..
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| _d_31. 07. 2014 10:14:47 |
I'll be glad if you tell me one concrete case who got a fine ticket for rescue due to improper equipment?! Haven't heard of anything like that happening?!
I don't care either how they hike to the mountains, just don't call rescuers then when you roll down the rocks, get dizzy, feel sick, slip... it's not about who and how experienced now, it can happen to anyone, even the most experienced hiker. Ok, let's end this "topic" because originally it was about Nanos and open/closed hut.
Good luck.
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| _d_31. 07. 2014 10:40:43 |
Thanks primoza, but when I see what all walks in the hills and in what gear, it seems still too little. I don't say accident doesn't sleep, can happen to anyone, but let's reduce risk of accidents with proper gear and mental and physical condition.
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| pikica131. 07. 2014 10:50:03 |
20+ years ago no hiker had helmet on head and self-belay kit. But people hiked all trails, even secured hiking paths. People were just less indifferent to fellow man. Watched out for possible hiker below you, today though like ... fuck they're walking right where I am. Whole rockslides they trigger when hiking on hiking paths. No helmet saves you from that. In hills you simply mustn't allow a fall, even with harness. Today you can buy all possible gear, which is nothing but false security to clueless hiker. Sudden weakness, loss of consciousness can hit you even when driving car. Before flying off road you hit some along the way. Then they write "for unknown reason veered off road"
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| SunBurned31. 07. 2014 10:59:00 |
"In hills you simply mustn't allow a fall, even with harness."
That's like saying: cars shouldn't have seatbelts nor airbags, because in cars you simply mustn't allow crash. Why for fuck's sake send everyone who does stupidity to grave?
Clear that both helmet and svk help. No one throws stones on purpose, nor breaks a foothold on purpose and hangs on self-belay kit. But you survive.
If kilo stone falls on helmet, you survive. On head, you die.
If you fly off foothold into abyss tied to svk, survive. If not, die.
Just that simple.
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| Zebdi31. 07. 2014 11:08:00 |
Just a note: if a kilo stone falls on your helmet from a bit higher (and in hills usually from real height), you can only dream of surviving 
But fully agree with pikica1...
EDIT: also this; in Slovenia haven't come across secured path where foothold could "break off" for me, and I've done quite a few. Unless of course some cubic meters of rock collapse. Foot/holds usually break in climbing routes, not on made paths.
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| SunBurned31. 07. 2014 11:10:53 |
The weight I wrote purely from memory. But that's not the point.
Right: slips off peg, twists in head, slides on pebbles. Better?
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| Zebdi31. 07. 2014 11:22:01 |
Better
So no mistake - I'm not against using safety gear, but against crucifying everyone who doesn't use it. My opinion is no safety gear can replace proper psycho-physical condition, while proper preparation can in many cases replace safety gear. Then you see people on Jubilee, who have all possible gear, but still grip the cable so convulsively that knuckles are pure white... not all in gear 
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| SunBurned31. 07. 2014 11:29:34 |
Very good thinking.
I also don't intend to moralize those who go completely without gear, or rather I think something similar about them as about those who drive unbuckled.
But I just wanted to say that objectively gear increases safety and it's not right to dismiss it. Of course there is a limit beyond which even a helmet or VF kit are no longer almighty. But that limit is certainly higher with gear.
And it makes no sense for an inexperienced dizzy person to rush onto exposed paths, even with all the gear.
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| pikica131. 07. 2014 12:16:18 |
On demanding secured paths it's recommended to go when we already have a couple of years of "regular" hiking behind us. Then the use of various protections is clear, when and how. Our secured paths are nicely routed along natural passages and ledges, no forcing at all. These are not via ferratas, although up here I constantly read about via ferrata on Mojstrovka and Prisank. Just because there's a ladder it looks like a ferrata.
Probably many more accidents happen outside of rings and pegs.
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| drofebo131. 07. 2014 12:20:40 |
Bravo pikica1, well written. For this comment I give you a big plus. As you mentioned, nowadays people in the mountains just rush somewhere, don't care about others regarding safety and set some records in summiting. Because of that accidents can happen quickly, whether you have a helmet on your head and a via ferrata kit or not. I'm also from the older generation of hikers and back then there wasn't all this safety gear, yet we hiked a lot of secured paths. Best regards.
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| Keko31. 07. 2014 12:29:21 |
When my wife and I were climbing a route in the pillar that runs along the left side of this secured path in spring, on the descent we encountered two older ladies who had just reached the top via that secured path. The ladies were around 60 in my estimation. Since they had climbed to the top without safety kits and without belaying, given their age it didn't give me peace and I asked them why without protection. To my question one of them waves her hand and says she's already hiked and climbed everything secured in Slovenia over the years without protection and that this path is nothing special either. She also said she notices how some are clumsy with these kits and that their behavior seems even more dangerous to her than an experienced hiker without protection.
We have a good example from Gonžarjeva peč, where there have already been two fatalities due to improper use of the safety kit and also quite a few injuries.
With safety kits it's the same as with weapons. If you give a weapon to someone who doesn't know how to use it, there's a high risk they'll accidentally shoot themselves.
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