Short German-Zimmer Jahn 800m IV-/II-III
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| jax1. 07. 2016 17:58:14 |
Hey, Rokson, don't exaggerate. Nobody claims that Short German was first ascended. Zimmer and Jahn did that ages ago ...
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| Rokson1. 07. 2016 20:34:06 |
I also don't claim she didn't climb it as first ascent. I claim she didn't climb it. Once again, see ethics and ascent evaluation.
You climb the route when as first in the rope team you lead the hardest pitch in the route. If there are two pitches of similar difficulty, the seconds can lead them alternately. If one pitch stands out, the first leads it, returns and the second climber leads as first in the rope team. Everything else is tension pulling.
First ascent climbing of the route has no connection to position in the rope team. Read the ethics and ascent evaluation in detail once more. This route is an alpinistic ascent and alpinistic evaluation rules apply.
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| SamoK1. 07. 2016 20:38:08 |
Rokson, you started quite sensibly, now you've burned out. Even if you always climb as second, you've climbed the route. That's clear to anyone who's ever climbed in the mountains, not just in crags and via ferratas.
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| Viper1. 07. 2016 20:46:30 |
Rokson do you have your own rules?
Climbed route counts for you in any case, even if you're top-roped the whole time (second in rope team).
If both partners lead alternately, it doesn't matter at all which pitches each got, in any case both have the route recognized.
And to lower back on hard pitches so that both lead the hard pitch as first in rope team. Do you even imagine how much time you'd spend climbing a 1000m route lowering back on hard pitches and going up again.
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| Rokson1. 07. 2016 21:13:55 |
Once again I quote the Alpiročnik, which is edited and used by the wider alpinist public. Sorry if you are higher authorities than the authors of the mentioned publication in the field of alpinism and I don't know you. If so, best to notify the authors that they are mistaken.
"The ascent must be done without protection from above."
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| SamoK1. 07. 2016 21:15:26 |
Rokson, you're ridiculous. Ask someone who has climbed more than the aforementioned practice routes in crags.
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| Viper1. 07. 2016 21:33:38 |
But imagine a long route with 30 pitches where for each pitch you'd have to rappel back down to the belay and lead it up again first. You'd take 3 days to climb the route like that.
These rules are very illogical and nonsensical.
Rokson, I completely disagree with top-roping meaning the route isn't climbed, exactly because of what I wrote above.
So that means all the routes I've climbed in walls don't count at all because my buddy and I alternated leading each pitch. And of course many alpinists' routes don't count then, hm interesting!
But why NOT, if I was up there in the wall or route.
You have to know that not all pitches go straight up, there are traverses too,...
And just how to get back down to the belay in all pitches.
In sport climbing these rules are fine, that the route isn't recognized if top-roped, but it's still recognized on "top rope".
In big walls it doesn't seem very logical to me.
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| grega_z_brega1. 07. 2016 21:52:43 |
Well the top one doesn't pull the bottom one up no...
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| Viper1. 07. 2016 22:07:04 |
Grega, the problem isn't that. Something else is that the leader has to find the right passages in the route, and in case of a possible fall he is in much greater danger than the second who just hangs on the rope if he falls.
On traverses climbing is dangerous for both if a fall happens.
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| grega_z_brega1. 07. 2016 22:11:37 |
Anyway, the lady climbed up there.
I just take my hat off.
Whoever measures dicks with her via comments doesn't need a very long one to win.
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| grega_z_brega1. 07. 2016 22:14:32 |
That's right!
Even if you talk about partners and bla bla bla....
Even my buddy said last time when we looked at Planjava wall - highway
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| Rokson1. 07. 2016 22:15:56 |
Viper, you didn't read carefully. In a route with six V+ pitches climbed by equal team, meaning each leads one, no problem.
What if the route has six V+ pitches, two VII- pitches and the leader climbed the hardest pitches? Did both climb a VII-/V route?
What would the Alpinism Commission say to a candidate for alpinist who climbed sufficient number of routes of appropriate difficulty as second in the team? Excerpt from fresh conditions:
"Special:
· At least 30 different summer (rock) alpinistic ascents in at least two different massifs:
o of which at least 5 ascents higher than 500m grade IV or more (as leader or alternating in team),
o of which at least 5 ascents grade IV or more (and higher than 300m or at least 5 pitches) as leader or alternating in team.
· at least 15 different winter alpinistic tours (approaches, routes, ski descents, icefalls - at least 100m):
o of which 5 routes as leader or alternating in team grade II/3 or more,
o of which 5 falls as leader or alternating in team grade WI3 or more,
..."
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| SamoK1. 07. 2016 22:17:03 |
Viper, alpinists have always done it that way, it goes without saying. Climbing in mountains is serious business.
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| grega_z_brega1. 07. 2016 22:17:40 |
Fuck... you're annoying Rokson
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| SamoK1. 07. 2016 22:18:42 |
Oh, God help. Rokson, you've mixed everything up. I don't feel like explaining at all. Get some experience in walls with alpinists, then it'll be clear to you.
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| Daaam1. 07. 2016 22:21:17 |
@Rokson, well, the lady/miss didn't take the alpinist exam but just wanted to go up the short German. Where did we get lost? 
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| Viper1. 07. 2016 22:21:55 |
Now we've gone far, even to the alpinist exam commission.
Rokson we're talking about something else, not exactly the exam commission.
But I agree with the conditions, it's all true.
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| gregcs12. 07. 2016 00:48:18 |
Such fun reading on hribi.net not for a long time! So that this super funny debate doesn't die, I'll throw a bone to gnaw too. I climbed the route solo, freely and it seems totally easy to me 
Now hit it! 
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