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Snowmobile driving

jprim5. 02. 2011 18:46:05

Every year my husband and I do a winter tour through the Smrekovsko pogorje, also today, but besides the beauties something completely different surprised me.
Beauties? Which? On Smrekovec – there are none. Not even the song of the mountain tit could be heard.
On Smrekovec something else has proliferated and the caretakers in the hut on Smrekovec even support it; well, I have to correct myself, today there was no gentleman they call Fika. I talked about his "friendliness" 2 years ago already, friendliness in quotes.

Members of the Nature Conservation Association for Smrekovec, of which PZ Šoštanj is also a member, advocate for protecting pristine nature … I agree, but so what when PD Šoštanj rented the hut to caretakers who don't care what happens around them, or even support it.
Or have they already become owners, since that's how the gentleman replacing the permanent caretaker behaved today; I don't care what the other connection is.

The conclusion of the conversation was: «If you've said everything, you can go!»
As if throwing me out of his yard.

Now nicely in order.
When we ran into motor sledders again this year, I warned one that this shouldn't be done – it was already the second lap along the ridge, evasion on his part. We met another one a bit later.
Upon arrival at the hut, the next event. Personal car and trailer, onto which they load the sleds. Guy and girl from the top. Caretaker steps out of the hut, takes skis and I into conversation: «What, now you have a real sled polygon on Smrekovec! Same as last year, this isn't done…!»

«What bothers you, go to Maribor to make order! …»

«If a person expresses their opinion, Smrekovec isn't just yours! … Where are the capercaillies?»
Last year we accidentally met one wood grouse; even Mr. Fika was surprised: «They were lucky!»

Then he starts with low blows, about trash paper… which has nothing to do with noise. Of course all three knew each other well.
Even the young lady said that it's only a 40 euro fine, if you pay right away then 20.

Dear hikers, hikers at heart and soul, can such behavior really not be stopped?

Will these scoundrels really drive all living beings from this mountain range?
LP! Jelči

Snowmobile driving also comment, in the sense that they are making a track for us hikers;

Snowmobile driving where is the sign - Caution snowmobile driving

Snowmobile driving end of the story - irony

Hribovc885. 02. 2011 19:43:15

Haha, that's real irony, it's something like when Terme Topolšica advertises with the slogan: Natural health resort in the middle of pristine nature, something like that in that sense, goodbye sanity...

Anyway, you told him just right, kudos velik nasmeh

I say, nature is fair... velik nasmeh

And one of the truths:

God is a just judge who rewards good and punishes severely

There's no sense in worrying about such people or things, but they sure throw a person off track, but it's like fighting like Don Quixote with windmills velik nasmeh

Anyway, nice photos velik nasmeh

jprim5. 02. 2011 20:16:53

These nicer ones were left for the current conditions ... we really made nice shots of KSA, but these seemed more important to me today.

lynx5. 02. 2011 20:29:59

And the adoption of the new regulation (oops, law) on driving in the natural environment has been moved to this fall and is still not mandatory, so there will be no changes for a while. jezen

jprim5. 02. 2011 20:31:41

I'll take the time and read that thing with 81 pages.

nanica5. 02. 2011 21:37:55

Not exactly about the topic title but anyway – when jprim mentioned the hut keeper at Smrekovec I remembered again the arrogant attitude we encountered three years ago. No crowd, but he just grumbled on every one of my questions and in the end yelled at the kids when they asked for a stamp. I asked him only things that he as keeper would know best how to answer. And recently I was quite surprised when he was presented at length in Planinski vestnik.

joža x6. 02. 2011 10:19:16

We live in a society where the rich are allowed everything and seem above the law; that the rich have no moral qualities we know too, so such things shouldn't surprise us anymore. Some "ordinary" [person] wonders how to pay the bills and for him mot. sleds are science fiction.

biso6. 02. 2011 16:36:37

Jelči, Jelči, don't get so upset. They say it harms beauty. velik nasmeh

Joke aside. I read your rant on "current conditions" too, but I'll rather write here so as not to mess up there.
Hikers are sometimes really more papal than the pope. Even Jelči probably didn't walk from home. At the starting point of her tour somewhere high on the hill (I strongly doubt she started walking at Ljubno or similar starting point), where she drove with her motor vehicle, it was lively to observe roughly the same scene as under Deblo peč:

http://www.hribi.net/slika.asp?razmerekomentar=47333

...but a bit higher someone was messing around with some other vehicle, the whole circus. I don't claim it's right, but hikers who often drive high into the hills are really the last to accuse others of following the rules and protecting nature.

GregorC6. 02. 2011 18:00:48

I agree with biso's comment. Anyway, I'm not exactly thrilled that they drive everywhere, but those who enjoy it have no other choice because here we simply don't have any arranged polygon or area dedicated to it anywhere. Same in summer with quads and crossers.
The thesis about environment destruction anyway only applies here. Abroad (especially in the so eco-aware Scandinavia) this is one of the main tourist attractions. They have organized multi-day trips even in pristine nature. But here...

jprim7. 02. 2011 00:05:52

My entire comment on the last comments: that's our youth who thinks like that, who doesn't care that maybe once on Smrekovec there lived capercaillies, wood grouse ... that some claim the area of the huts as their own, that they allow themselves to do what they shouldn't ...

What about me, who enjoys nature and peace but according to the rules. For me there's no space here ...
And then anger harms beauty, which one, nature's beauty ... zavijanje z očmi

LP!

lynx7. 02. 2011 17:36:11

biso: true, often you could start lower, but the main difference here is between driving everywhere ("natural environment") and driving on roads where most of the damage was already done.

GregorC: you can drive on a large part of forest roads and elsewhere.
http://www.mop.gov.si/si/delovna_podrocja/narava/voznja_v_naravi/vprasanja_in_odgovori/#c17510

biso7. 02. 2011 18:11:04

jprim: "the youth" also says this: On Smrekovec and many other places there really were capercaillies and wood grouse, but far more than the snowmobilers drove away, we hikers drove them away and everything connected with us (mountain huts, marked trails, off-trail and related mess)

lynx: true, with forest roads, huts in the mountains (even alpine), trails etc most damage is already done. You know what snowmobile riders say? That they leave no visible traces. Look at the erosion on the hiking trail to Kamniški vrh. And you won't say snowmobilers are to blame for that.

I just want to say that we hill folk are on devilishly thin ice with accusations against others regarding impact on natural environment. Let's start at our own doorstep. Right, Jelči. That's damn hard. And thanks for putting me among the youth. That flatters me at my age......

jprim7. 02. 2011 21:55:17

biso:"I just want to say that we hill folk are on devilishly thin ice with accusations against others regarding impact on natural environment. Let's start at our own doorstep."

I take care of my doorstep (if only some hut caretakers would take care of their house mountain) and I don't walk on thin ice either. nasmeh

I'm withdrawing from this debate that I started myself, since I see you support such actions.
I ask the moderator to delete this thread, ... since most of you prefer to turn a blind eye and suddenly go deaf rather than react for the good of nature.
LP!

Zebdi8. 02. 2011 16:31:30

Interesting, everyone stumbles over snowmobiles, but no one speaks up about, say, the situation in the Triglav Lakes Valley or perhaps Kredarica. It's easy to close your eyes and point finger at a specific interest group, harder to sweep in front of your own doorstep. For the mess at Double Lake we hikers are pretty much to blame ourselves. Everyone boils over at the noise from snowmobiles, yet calmly tolerate helicopter supply to huts. Oh dear ones, hypocrisy unmatched and here is the thin ice biso pointed out. I dare say that the number of alpine huts and resulting mass tourism in high mountains burdens nature much more than those poor snowmobilers.

P.S. Let me explicitly say that snowmobiles bother me too, but it's far from the only thing that bothers me, nor the worst phenomenon in our mountains.

turbo8. 02. 2011 17:47:46

Helicopter (supply and/or rescue) comes and goes with a specific task. Snowmobiles purely for thrill-seeking.
Trash in 7J valley or soiled lake. Hikers surely not guilty that hut toilets are outdated, no sewage treatment, etc. You go to WC in good faith that facilities are proper. And since not, it's almost the same if you'd do it behind the first spruce.
If you go hiking to mountains, you leave nothing but footprint on soft ground (and bit of vibram rubber on rock), respect nature and animals and behave accordingly, the damage you cause to nature is minimal. Comparing that to snowmobiles... Thanks I don't know whom that I know and can always go somewhere without crowds, no noise, no need to argue with anyone... and if someone follows, they won't even know I was there, because nothing remains behind me...

biso8. 02. 2011 18:52:55

1. Animals don't care if they experience noise from "thrill-seeking snowmobiler" or from "necessary supply of alpine hut or rescue". Was anyone ever there when rescuers search for a lost person with helicopter and fly very close to terrain? Animals flee everywhere. Even in winter, when they spend much more energy on that.

2. Footprint on soft ground and bit of vibram rubber on rock we can all see on Kamniški vrh, on path to Golica and other mass-visited trails.

3. turbo wrote: "Hikers surely not guilty that hut toilets outdated, no sewage treatment". We aren't, but we are part of those who mess up the mountains and new "cleaning" facilities have to be built because of us.

I still insist that hikers are on thin ice when moralizing others.

turbo8. 02. 2011 20:17:34

Biso,
I have everything swept in front of my doorstep. Conscience clear. About 35 years of hiking, mountaineering, scrambling, ski touring, etc. So based on experiences "on my own skin" I know what and how.
A helicopter is a necessity in certain cases. Snowmobiles are never a necessity, purely fashion. Or "showing off", excuse me, I can't find a better word.
I'M NOT part of those, as you say you are, Biso, who mess up the mountains. Not in mountains, even in town I wouldn't dare throw a paper on the ground. Actually not that I wouldn't dare, it doesn't even cross my mind. And this half-philosophical: I am, not we are. I'm one and only and never identify with crowds. Not with those kindred to me, even less with those not. I spoke up when they were digging and still dig Karavanke with various necessary roads, spoke up when they wanted to move Aljaž Tower and speak up when they rage with sleds through pristine nature, many places in nature parks. But whenever I speak up, I don't deny others a different opinion or view. Nor impose mine. All different, all equal, my freedom goes only so far as not to infringe on others'. And if I imagine walking on Smrekovec and snowmobiles speed past me, I think that does infringe on my freedom.

biso8. 02. 2011 21:02:52

matta and turbo, you convinced me. Hill folk we are little angels who don't harm nature and can preach to anyone doing something in nature we don't like. Hope you'll enthusiastically answer hikers asking: "Does anyone know if the road to pl. Blato is passable?" And of course animals have chips to distinguish when motorized hikers bother them, when snowmobilers do.
Now I'll rather shut up so the lady doesn't start threatening me too that she'll cut my throat with motorbike, like she did to Ksenija some time ago.

Oh, with matta's first sentence I fully agree!

lynx8. 02. 2011 21:31:55

For double lake fishermen are to blame (ok, probably hybrids with hikers), but good news, this year they installed (new) sewage treatment in the hut.

biso: as long as there's enough snow, sleds really no erosion problem (assume low specific pressure), otherwise tracks can seriously damage ground, roots and anything sticking out (yes, last two apply to ski tourers too). Main problem imo noise burden and potential danger to others due to speed.
Of course walkers have negative impact too, but usually much smaller and easier to mitigate - imagine if everyone in hills not walked but drove with engines and sleds!? Kamniški vrh would be barren long ago. As long as few vehicles, impacts maybe not so obvious ...

On mass tourism and abundance of huts I agree! "Off-trail" and secluded corners are dearer to me, but we can't just start demolishing huts.

biso8. 02. 2011 23:53:22

So not everything torn out of context, here is the full context:

http://www.gore-ljudje.net/novosti/42306/

And some more reading proving that even leading hill folk (thank God!) don't fully agree:

http://www.gore-ljudje.net/novosti/44047/

Tolerance, matta, tolerance to differently minded. Applies?

turbo9. 02. 2011 10:30:21

Matta,
what a marginal minority. Didn't you notice that we're in the dual zmeden

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