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Snowmobile driving

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GričarA21. 02. 2011 10:38:47
This was filmed in the area from Raduha to Golt.
Probably Raduha.
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biso21. 02. 2011 10:54:52
These guys have tons of feeling, otherwise they wouldn't get anywhere in such a world. mežikanje

And the music is really nice too. nasmeh
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Zalas21. 02. 2011 11:10:24
Nice! Still better than quads on meadows and forest paths. These at least don't destroy grass and undergrowth!
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tisa21. 02. 2011 14:14:44
While watching the snowmobile video I felt the following: if I were there during this ride, despite being against this kind of mountain frolicking and the already listed negative reasons, I'd be tempted to ride them at least once.nasmehmežikanje
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ejca21. 02. 2011 16:02:00
Huh, you've challenged me with your comments, although I just wanted to find out where this rampaging, rolling and tumbling was filmed.
GričarA, thanks for the answer.
biso: Maybe the guys have a feel for snowmobiles (I don't judge that, I'm not an expert). But definitely no feel for nature. And yes, the music is nice, probably they equipped the video with it just because it's nicer to listen to music than the roaring of snowmobiles nasmeh
Otherwise just this: For certain activities boundaries need to be set. A certain amount of noise is not acceptable in mountain environment! Certain interventions in the terrain, vegetation, watercourses... are not acceptable in mountain environment! Spills of harmful substances are not acceptable in mountain environment! And that's because we have responsibility not only to ourselves, but also to the environment and future generations.
Where to set the boundaries is of course a matter of consensus. The worst is when everything is tolerated and everything is allowed.
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Hribovc8821. 02. 2011 16:09:01
ejca, I sign under thisvelik nasmehnasmehmežikanje

tisa, do you always give in to temptation so quicklyvelik nasmehnasmehzavijanje z očmi
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JTrogar21. 02. 2011 20:36:40
I read this thread from the beginning and noticed that my unknown fan @jožax, a hiker without a recognizable profile, mentions me again, this time as a hiker who stomps through pathless terrain, unmarked paths, describes those paths etc. I don't know how you can compare my walking with the roaring of snowmobiles, with which they drive in such inaccessible places that sometimes you can hardly get there even with ice axes and crampons. Dude, something's obviously wrong with you. Sure, I sometimes let one rip while walking, may the gentler sex forgive me, but compared to the exhaust and roaring of the snowmobilers I probably don't endanger nature too much with that. Quiet walking is an art in its own way, which I master well, I hope you do too, because if not, then you're really stomping. To touch on the laws about parks and protected areas, which also include the Smrekovško pogorje as a protected natural area and therefore snowmobile driving is prohibited there. Some think they're something special, "dare" and express their own and the general culture of the nation with such rides. @jožax you also mention some trophies. I don't know, maybe those are trophies for you (like your hiked SPP), for me they are just natural beauties that I want to describe to others too, which is what this website is for. I myself am often very glad for a description of some corner. But that doesn't mean I'll then shit there, make fire, stomp and I don't know what else you mention. There I'll enjoy the beauties of nature with as little damage to it as possible, just like I strongly believe all the others on this forum do. Maybe sometimes you need to sweep in front of your own doorstep to make life nicer.
Nice greetings from under the beautiful Golte, Janezvelik nasmeh
Video:
Snowmobiles1
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joža x22. 02. 2011 16:06:38
Although you read everything from the beginning you didn't understand me, but I don't expect everyone to understand me. But I expected more than just "dude, something's wrong with you" in defense of your doings, but that also says a lot about the culture you mention above. And one more thing, I'm not your fan, I took your path description as an example and it's one among thousands and more, because I despise such feats.
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turbo22. 02. 2011 21:06:01
Joža X, regarding the description of some tour (several tours) by for example Jtrogar you wrote that you despise such feats.
Maybe you missed the forum or page. Divers and cavers have their own web things.
Otherwise, even in settlements noise is limited. And even in settlements you can't drive wherever you want. Not even with a bicycle.
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prokofjev_23. 02. 2011 06:51:03
in short Joža x, remove yourself from these pages so they never see you again. Because here everyone thinks alike, if you haven't noticed.

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tisa23. 02. 2011 07:39:28
It seems right to me that everyone expresses their opinion. And it's also not right or not interesting to advertise somewhere only like-minded people as prokofjev says. Most of us strongly condemn this kind of destruction of nature. But if such and similar people advertise, it's our duty to convince them otherwise. To start thinking and realizing that they lived in error and that it's right to change their opinion and start acting for the benefit of beautiful nature and its inhabitants. Such kind of people who mess around in any way are like children who are beginning to become aware of themselves, so they need to be constantly reminded what is right and what is wrong, not just attacked. Then it will slowly "dawn" on them I hope that they think and act wrong. They need to be educated and raised to start walking according to some rules of nature, I just don't know if we are the right address, but trying is no sin, they say. Good luck.
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ejca23. 02. 2011 10:03:29
As far as I could understand, joža x wanted mainly to point out that hikers also cause impacts on the environment with walking in the hills and he is of course right there. Especially mass hiking, even more so mountain huts, cause problems in the environment that are by no means negligible. He also pointed out the problem of walking on unmarked paths and descriptions of off-trail routes that bring even more visitors to those otherwise remote corners.
All this are really problems that in Slovenia are not regulated even approximately! It's right to point them out. It would also be right to finally find solutions that would put all activities into some reasonable frameworks. Should certain areas be completely excluded from use and left to nature? Where to direct intensive recreation like snowmobile riding? How to regulate mountain huts to reduce their impact on the environment?
It's true that everyone can do a lot themselves, but in my opinion things need to be solved mainly systematically! Such scolding really leads nowhere.
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joža x23. 02. 2011 11:30:25
Probably I really missed (failed) the page, because here everyone defends their own doing and points the finger at the other's sins, but how maybe I myself contribute to the destruction of the natural environment they don't even try to understand. At the beginning of this thread I wrote that I don't advocate motor sledding anywhere in the natural environment, but that's not the only thing that bothers me and I think I'm not the only one (at least I hope) among like-minded people. If I raised someone's pressure or even humiliated him, I sincerely apologize, that was not my intention, I only care about nature and that every day.
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turbo23. 02. 2011 14:11:14
Joža X,
relatively simple all together. You drive to where it's allowed and not to where it goes. On the way to the mountains and back, you don't throw away trash. You don't make noise, you don't cause damage. These few "little things" are already quite a lot.
As for detailed descriptions of routes or ascents, it's like this. On many alpine sections' pages they publish news about recent ascents (rock, snow and ice). In climbing guides there are detailed route descriptions. So, some climbing route I can study to zero based on description and sketches and pictures. But it doesn't even cross my mind to tackle it. It's simply beyond my reach. And the same applies if I or someone else describes some ascent on a difficult off-trail. Those who master it would go there even without my description and manage, maybe some fresh info helps them (e.g. snow fields). For others who are less experienced or don't have similar ambitions, my or someone else's description can be interesting reading.
I'm lucky, actually double lucky. I've been hiking in the mountains since early youth, soon 40 years of practice. And in 7th grade of elementary school I passed exam on history of mountaineering, "bonton" in mountains, that is behavior, weather, orientation. And more. So some theory before practice there was. And so that it doesn't sound too nice, let me at the end also sprinkle myself with ashes. Me too in "those years" was wild and not only down below but also up above, over 1000m for example, I dropped something inappropriate. Thanks to him that it passed relatively quickly, so now the average is more in the plus. I'll conclude on this topic, that is I won't comment anymore, I'll just add this: mass, often campaign hiking causes much more damage than solo off-trail hiking. Overfull mountain inns, pardon huts, cause more pollution than some loner or two bivouacking under a spruce. One snowmobile causes more noise and pollution than a group of touring skiers, even if there are say twenty.
And for the end, Joža X, you didn't raise my pressure, let alone offend me. You have your opinion and stance that you passionately defend and stand by. As I have my opinion and stance. And I too have probably crossed the line of good taste for someone in defending my stances. When years ago in summer I lay on Čisti Vrh I looked at Lepo Špičje and thought of Tuma when his route was right in front of my eyes. Madonna, I said to myself. Čisti Vrh and Lepo Špičje are just the same as they were when Tuma walked around here. And down in Trenta nature is the same as in Kugy's time. Only we are different. Worse or better, that those who come after us will judge and maybe one day also lie on Čisti Vrh or Špičje.
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potepinka23. 02. 2011 15:57:17
Actually we are lucky because in our country due to smallness everything is within reach, from demanding mountains to nice hills, all the way to the sea. If I exaggerate a bit – every day we can sweat in the mountains and then wash in the sea. This advantage gives us our smallness, whose disadvantage is probably that space is limited and for certain activities like snowmobile riding there is almost none. Many countries have tourist resorts at the height of Kredarica with all possible tourist offers, but at the same time huge uninhabited areas. So man is left with the choice whether to succumb to the charms of mass tourism or the charms of wilderness.

With us it seems we want to mix everything everywhere. Everywhere we want everything (e.g. mountain peace and party at the same time) and probably that's why everything limps a bit. And it's not only in the mountain world and its preservation. Isn't it the same on ski slopes (boarders and alpine)? And between motorcyclists and car drivers on the road (and they only need one "Grobnik" they say)? And mountain bikers (how many groomed trails do they have)? And road cyclists and cycle paths for them? And ... yes, and more can be found. Common to all these "forced" to move in the same area is that these groups don't tolerate each other too well. We criticize each other, but (almost) nothing changes.

Unfortunately in our country the problem is that too often "we accommodate" certain groups ("just to keep them quiet") and a regulation is adopted that just says "prohibited!". Alternatives are not regulated. Even banning snowmobile riding won't solve the problem until there are also locations for them where they can enjoy the daily dose of petrol fumes…

Otherwise I'm a supporter of mountain peace and in huts tea and polenta with milk is quite enough for me (if there has to be anything). But it's true that I have nothing against people having different hobbies. I can't imagine everyone's hobby being pedaling up "my climb" or walking the same slope. I think there would be a crowd…

…and the predecessor is right… people are different. Yes, people are those who do good or bad to ourselves… and those who can change the world for the better.
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turbo24. 02. 2011 11:35:59
What does PZS say about this issue?! zmeden
When they built roads through the Karavanke?, when huts turned into inns?, when traffic in mountain valleys needs to be regulated?, when snowmobiling also happens in natural parks?, when membership is fleeing abroad?, what does PZS say about all of it?! zmeden
Anyway, it's all pointless. First I emigrated as a PZS member abroad, to fairyland, and after one year realized that it's really all different there. On the shady side of the Alps. Then I also decided that if I sleep in a mountain hut, let it be a real hut and not an inn, so even when I sleep in the mountains, I sleep abroad. mežikanje It's true that the mentioned has nothing to do with sleds, but it's also true that everything together is becoming more and more pointless. Unfortunately. Šentflorjanska Valley or whatever? mrk pogled
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potepinka24. 02. 2011 14:46:28
Mata, conclusion is missing, you say. Given that on Jprim's first photo there is also a sign prohibiting snowmobile riding, the logical conclusion would be reporting the violators. But it's true that with us the reporter is treated as if he is the violator and therefore most people don't make reports (of any kind).

So there is another option: call PD Šoštanj to visit their hut more often and have them take care of reports, or occasionally invite an inspector as a guest. They can also provide a larger, standalone sign prohibiting snowmobile riding.

There is also the option written on the sign from the first photo: notify Naravovarstveno zvezo Smrekovec.

So, any hiker who meets them can warn the violators. But there would surely be more effect from the "more competent authorities". Mountain police, which we can meet several times in summer, surely aren't all on ski resorts in winter?

In short, I don't tolerate snowmobiles even on/at ski resorts very well, because they always drive where there are the most people and they seem sensible to me only if they assist in rescues in case of injuries.

I also agree with Turbo regarding huts, which are increasingly becoming inns, which is unnecessary since there are more than enough of them in the valley. Is transformation back to huts even still possible? Is the violation smaller if snowmobiles are used for hut supply?

And if I'm a tiny rascal at the end: almost every village here has a football field, some with better, others with less impressive grass, but in winter they are mostly covered with snow and idle; maybe they could be allocated to snowmobilers in winter so they can live out their dreams? Even in Formula 1 they drive in circles, and they're perfectly happy.

My answer to the question "Does it concern us?": Every individual. Unfortunately there are fewer and fewer of those willing to engage in "Don Quixotism"…
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turbo24. 02. 2011 15:30:56
About snowmobiles not a word, I've said too much already. Just a bit more on the hut/inn topic. I said it once, no problem.
Huts legally accessible by car should be mountain inns with an appropriate offer. Huts that require walking and are in the mid-mountains should be mountain huts with a somewhat simpler offer than those accessible by vehicle. Huts in the high mountains should provide basic supply. Bed with wool blanket and pillow. Bring your own bed linen. From food: meat and vegetarian meal, non-alcoholic drinks, a glass of wine or a can of beer. The last two in appropriate quantities. And that's it. By the way, mass summer hiking will end. Which there isn't in winter anyway.
And since this is a topic on the snowmobile topic, despite my promise I'll add:
to huts that you can legally drive to in summer, I would conditionally allow driving to them in winter with sleds. Motorized. For example with restriction that these roads cannot be used on Friday and Saturday between 22h and 5h. Night peace, say.
Or things can be solved like this: look in neighboring alpine countries how they have it regulated (snowmobiling). And take average between the strictest and the most liberal ones. For starters.
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atoamac24. 02. 2011 15:44:51
In winter night peace could start earlier too -e.g. from dusk onwards.
Potepinka's rascal proposal isn't even that rascal.nasmeh
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turbo24. 02. 2011 16:17:15
Potepinka, nice suggestion, soccer field in circles. If bad weather, then Stožice under roof zadrega
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