TNP and environmental burdens
|
| zippo17. 04. 2014 10:44:10 |
of course, realistically Čokl because of their project of building a mega ski resort in Bohinj is surely a big thorn in the side for TNP guys and they are especially watching him.
| (+2) |  | |
|
|
|
|
| zippo17. 04. 2014 12:36:31 |
yes of course, but the background is visible from the plane, if you just follow a bit the matters around that mountain society, which is led by whom?
|
|
|
|
| viharnik17. 04. 2014 12:46:26 |
Well, this is the expert legal opinion of my classmate, who is an excellent lawyer and already provides legal advice to the chamber of commerce.
For example a legal service (in this case TNP), which based on media (pictorial material or description via web portals) finds a suspect who breaks the law, according to legal criteria cannot and has no legal basis to find him guilty and even fine him.
Only if the offender personally on his own wish submits with his own documents that he violated something and hands it over to the prosecution authority (self-accuses), then conviction is possible from a legal point of view, and even that only conditionally, because courts don't have their own authentic conviction data, evidence from police, inspectors, or other authorities that are authorized to suspect someone of acts. She says that for every offense the guardian of the law must make a record of the accused person on the spot and submit it as authentic for criminal complaint and not otherwise. 
| (+12) | | |
|
|
|
|
| carniolus17. 04. 2014 14:54:00 |
I thought it would be like that.
| (+3) | | |
|
|
|
|
| gorolazka17. 04. 2014 17:26:29 |
Zippo, I was a member of Cokel's freeapprovda. If at that time I had committed an offense and got a fine, would Cokel be guilty somewhere in the background, of course? And not the fact that I consciously or by mistake violated the law.
|
|
|
|
| tine.sl17. 04. 2014 18:15:42 |
No one will convince me that a bivouac overnight or, if you want, a paraglider or mountain bike—I don't know what burden for nature in TNP. Meanwhile, all day sports planes buzz there that almost crash into the Triglav summit during their business activity, panoramic flights, and helicopters supplying huts so we tourists can easily feast a bit there. And some tractor shows up to deliver beer to a hut easier.
Let's be honest to ourselves, if not to nature.
| (+9) | | |
|
|
|
|
| lynx18. 04. 2014 12:47:26 |
viharnik, that's exactly what they did.
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| GregorC18. 04. 2014 14:22:55 |
lynx, I strongly doubt that the supervisor went to the top of Rjavina and documented the offense there and wrote a fine.
In such cases, when someone informs the supervisor about an offense, either in writing, orally or with a photo, the supervisor's task is to check the matter personally on site and act on that basis. And also given how serious the violation of that bivouacking was and if action was needed at all, a warning would suffice.
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| lynx18. 04. 2014 14:40:37 |
For such short-term things, it of course makes no sense. Here they served all evidence nicely on a plate themselves. Supervisor incidentally can't do much, only inspectors—don't know if those in TNP law are defined differently than in ZON/ZVO.
I fully understand why they escalated the matter. We can argue if it was tenting or not, but in the end our opinions and foreign practices don't matter here, only legal provisions. If those aren't right, they should be changed, not bend the rules or implement them deficiently (that's why we are such a nest of corruption). Most people saw nice pictures and probably don't even ask about details, which broadly means it was unconsciously promotion of illegal acts and the damage is greater than some trampled snow.
|
|
|
|
| tine.sl18. 04. 2014 15:52:03 |
The topic we're discussing is TNP and environmental burdens. Not the role of legislation and various lobbies that would each want their own just for themselves.
Everyone would ban something to all the others, but not to themselves
| (+2) | | |
|
|
|
|
| viharnik18. 04. 2014 16:39:42 |
From what I understood in the conversation with the lawyer and the additional question at that time, whether TNP, police or some other authority can find us guilty just from media-obtained misdemeanor indications and then impose a fine or prison, the answer from her was decidedly no. So, under no circumstances is such a way of identifying offenders possible. Even if the offender reports himself to the police, the handling of detecting the offense is questionable and only conditionally acceptable. It is possible that the self-accuser has no authentic evidence or forged them himself, since the results of violating some law were not established by the hand of justice. Therefore, judging someone that way is very questionable and legally conditional.
So also those TNP overflights with paragliders shouldn't (couldn't) be fined just on the basis of pictorial descriptions from mountaineering forums. Different if police in blue set up their stationary radars on the road, where the device measures exceeded speed, time of shot with date and your reg. number and sends a monetary fine home. So, in every case, at the place of detecting the law violation, there must be a guardian of the law who has all authorizations for establishing the offense so that the offender's act becomes a legally binding conviction.
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| lynx18. 04. 2014 17:50:04 |
Don't now mix misdemeanors, crimes, Indians and courts. 
|
|
|
|
| viharnik18. 04. 2014 18:01:35 |
Lynx, all that can happen to you if you're not good 
|
|
|
|
| lynx18. 04. 2014 18:41:42 |
It's not a criminal offense here, so the Criminal Code has nothing to do with it. This violation is probably defined right in the articles with penalties of ZTNP. The basis for violations is ZUP and more. There are no convictions for violations.
|
|
|
|
| viharnik18. 04. 2014 18:56:24 |
ZTNP of course has its own internal violation provisions tied to Triglav National Park. But when it comes to establishing the factual status of legality of a certain violation, it all refers to general legal provisions. TNP can't have its own criteria for final conviction of someone violating rules in TNP. Direct evidence is inevitably needed, not reports on the internet. Whoever fell for such practice just paid the fine . It is true some violate TNP rules, which is not right. Next time set up your igloo on mountain tops for peaceful night, dog sated and goat intact plus even warmer bivouacking.
|
|
|
You must log in to post a comment:
If you do not yet have a username, you must first
register.