TNP and environmental burdens
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| korl16. 04. 2014 11:50:44 |
Perfectly right. Why self-incriminate on the web? Would there be anything wrong if the report was posted without the pitched tent? If self-promotion is total, it can bring consequences, every kid training volleyball against a wall of a building full of windows knows that...
Self-publication is not proof? Then what is proof?
You cause an accident with your car grazing a pedestrian or cyclist, calmly drive on and the next day post a dashcam video on youtube with comment below: "what the fuck, if the guy was half a meter closer I could have killed him. But I didn't wait because he could sue me. I post this publicly because police didn't see me themselves and can't do anything to me, am I cool!"
If the authority doesn't fine him based on public self-documentation of the offense, then it's not doing its job!!!
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| viharnik16. 04. 2014 12:37:15 |
I think that someone's verbal post and photographic material is by no means sufficient to fine someone. It needs to be seen with one's own eyes, that TNP staff photographs it themselves as evidence and also IDs the client. Otherwise there is no legal basis to report someone based on some photos that may be genuine or not at all, i.e. unknown and not 100%. That's what Franci Savenc also said in my case with the hunters' adventures. Anyone can photograph anything in nature or town unlimitedly and post it without punishment as a private person. You see this and that that interests you and photograph, even if the lens captures something else you don't care about and post it. There is no legal overstep here. In this case I definitely wouldn't pay some quasi accusation. Let them prove it in court if such a way of collecting money suits them.
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| ana16. 04. 2014 12:53:06 |
viharnik, this about unlimited photographing you interpret very superficially. We're not talking about photos of nature but of people doing something wrong on them.
Possibility of manipulation is if a third party forwards it to harm someone, but you won't falsely accuse yourself?? No one forbids you.
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| viharnik16. 04. 2014 13:35:13 |
Yes, Ana, but for your photos seen by someone, there is no direct proof, not that you took them, not where, not when, for what purpose etc. To fine someone, the competent services must have their own evidence, i.e. their material that you are in violation.
There are too many rotten societies nowadays that want to get rich easily without work, that's why we are where we are. And at the top of normal etiquette is to first just warn a person in violation without a fine. That's how Italian police mostly do, especially if you're friendly to them. With us it's hit the wallet, but we are not robots of the legal system. What's missing is the spiritual, tolerance, honesty, help to fellow man and thus we wouldn't know today's crises.
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| ana16. 04. 2014 14:39:43 |
yes warning, but why last year one Sunday morning when there was no traffic, couldn't I get away just with a warning when I was driving 56 through the settlement (limit 50)?
Obviously I don't live in your world of "normal etiquette".
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| viharnik16. 04. 2014 14:53:49 |
Just go across the border, conditions there are much more humane.
I also paid for over Črnuče when I exceeded 6km/h, fine 40 eur or 20 right away.
They say new radars on roads like hail, they measure at night too, so watch out!
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| VanSims16. 04. 2014 19:36:13 |
What @viharnik writes about sleeping in car abroad is true. Not only at mountain parking lots but everywhere they let you sleep in the car. Exceptions are private lots and those explicitly saying no.
When I traveled Europe by car I had police night visits multiple times, they just checked documents (Germans like to check car too) but that was all. No issue at all. Here they've fined foreigners sleeping in cars apparently.
On violations abroad. Hmm, got greetings from Austrian police for speeding on Bundesstrasse over Šmohor. I have a whole collection of parking tickets from various countries. For now can ignore, but European payment order coming where fines collected from foreigner via their country.
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| viharnik16. 04. 2014 20:11:49 |
Abroad is probably much more impartially humane regarding sleeping in nature. For sleeping in car with "outside" I didn't mean outside parking lots, but outside the car or next to it, which is forbidden as it's considered wild camping. Surprised by new article on Gore-ljudje about "tenting on Rjavina". Hiker just bivouacked one winter night, not camping. What people throw away as waste in TNP in summer no one answers for, unkempt huts with sewage treatment plants, paint on rocks, illegal trails, illegal logging etc. I advise you to empathize with old ad at Mojstrana - Slovenia is my country, Slovenia are people-. Fine those who really damage TNP, not someone who just sheltered from mountain wind in winter  .
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| risto16. 04. 2014 21:40:47 |
TNP responded with opinion on G-L. Pure bureaucratic answer. And that's the point.
Does freedom of movement include bivouacking or tenting too????
Big brother or bureaucrat is watching you!!
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| Zebdi16. 04. 2014 21:56:05 |
The opinion is written correctly. The rules are known and were deliberately broken, plus everything was widely posted online. This pretending and playing the victim role is pathetic. They knew what they did wrong and even boasted about it (original title was Forbidden adventure...).
The English have a nice proverb - don't do the crime if you can't do the time...
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| lynx16. 04. 2014 22:13:27 |
Yes, in plain terms, lack of reaction would be a corrupt act.
Now we know they welcome field info, so in summer please don't stay silent when you see stupidity.
The English
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| viharnik16. 04. 2014 22:15:39 |
It's about the handling of the case, not who might be behind it. For me, an overnight stay in the mountains isn't camping yet. On the other hand, they can't bill Čokl because they didn't even see him sleeping in a tent. If they want to fine someone, TNP members should directly meet justified offenders by their standards. It's like the police setting up radars at night on the road and going to sleep, then electronically picking what was caught at night in the morning. Money via the internet only stock lobbyists can earn imho, and they need good world connections with colleagues, hello?
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| lynx16. 04. 2014 22:30:54 |
Regardless of what we think, they obviously had enough justified reasons. Of course, an appeal to the second instance is possible.
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| polh17. 04. 2014 00:07:23 |
It's right to make order and set certain rules, but you have to choose examples with reason. By such logic they will soon start sending bills for walking after 9 pm because of disturbing the night peace of the surroundings near hiking trails.
Isn't bivouacking part of mountaineering? They say they hiked up +6h and reached the summit towards the end of the day. It's clear they went up to bivouac but that's also a safer option compared to immediate descent after +6h uphill, if someone decides for a long tour after work.
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| risto17. 04. 2014 07:12:37 |
What's the difference between bivouacking and tenting?? In terms of duration! One night or
more! Is it allowed to sleep/bivouac
one night in a tent or bivy sack? If not allowed then freedom of movement is limited or
you have to keep moving in TNP, so you don't break "their" rules.
What do you get if you send a donkey to college? A college-educated donkey!
No help for us.
Anyway, hiking in the mountains is an intimate activity of each individual and not inflating!
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| zippo17. 04. 2014 07:12:51 |
viharnik, I also don't know in what world you live.
That about cops who set up radars and the next day just read off ... hahaha, don't tell us you're afraid that they'll only invent stationary radars sometime in the ugly future
how would you solve the littering problem and other offenses that the authorities are supposed to catch live? Send 100,000 supervisors to the mountains in summer to watch everyone's ass where they'll put the empty can from beer or redbull, empty can or tampon? And bother every farmer who fells a spruce if it's properly reported for culling?
All mouth about some normal etiquette towards citizens, but you'd load our backs with person-by-person surveillance like decades ago in Romania. Whatever you want for yourself, just not here!
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| viharnik17. 04. 2014 08:12:38 |
Look Zippo, I'm not selling any unfounded inflating here. In summer I saw with my own eyes full bivouacs and talks with ours that foreigners use bivouacs like bungalows and don't move anywhere. In Vrata just a few meters from the main road foreigners were pitching tents in the evening, there were plenty of wild cuttings in Medvode and legally also on Pokljuka, whole clearings!. And where were the great TNP guys then. They can't even saw up fallen trees on overgrown paths. Such money collection just over the net is illegal and barbaric. Best is for Čokl to write back a defense that his article on Rjavina was just a parody on TNP, then they can wipe under their nose, since they are anyway completely without evidence. Zippo, it won't be long until they start setting up even autonomous radars only here in Slovenia . Just recently I returned a Makita brushcutter, two-stroke, made in China with defect, from USA four-stroke are super and no problem. First I took it to service where they replaced the carburetor, which is not repair. The serviceman laughing told me they'll have more problems with me . Second time I took it back to the store (eight days for consumer protection), where they refunded me the money, I gave them ERC-China Makita. Today 200eur is not little money.
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| GregorC17. 04. 2014 09:46:16 |
I'm really wondering why they are not always so consistent in issuing fines? Or is it perhaps personal grudge? Once again it turned out that we are more papal than the pope here.
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