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Covid-19, Ukraine

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jax17. 11. 2020 19:46:35
Dragon, you slept through a lesson from political theory. Yes, democracy means exactly that, people can decide within some framework what is good for them. That framework is certainly debatable, but the point is that something as crazy as restriction to municipalities doesn't pass any proportionality and equality before the law test.
In the end lubadar was completely right - on a principled level my freedom ends where with my actions I endanger others. And yes, as long as certain protective measures are followed, WHICH ALREADY APPLY ANYWAY, the impact of hiking in the hills (or maybe trips to Bled, for that matter) is negligible. Even if hiking en masse.
But your and Primož's position is oversimplified - between respecting government measures and not harming others you draw an absolute equation. If you respect measures, no matter how arbitrary and repressive, you protect others, if not you harm them. Look, the world isn't that simple. Human moral sense developed over millennia and I think everyone can judge well when doing right and when not, even if not whispered by some fascistoid Hojs. Fact is government measures are arbitrary and in many places only indirectly related to limiting virus spread. And if you recognize that and follow them with a grain of salt, you don't contribute to worsening at all. Or better said: no, it's not true that best would be everyone in country sticks to arbitrary regulations like a drunk to a fence. Best would be if everyone in country used common sense.
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journeyman17. 11. 2020 19:54:22
OK, Zebdi, that's your right. But still I'll paste you a link to an article on PCR test and more https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/27/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless/
And maybe one video: https://www.bitchute.com/video/CasMiFZXWT0o/
from a doctor.
For more you'll have to make an effort yourself. There's a huge amount of material for reading and listening. I trust you'll judge for yourself what and how. mežikanje
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journeyman17. 11. 2020 19:58:24
Jax, I don't agree with everything you wrote, but in general another good reply. We certainly lack common sense.
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SamoK17. 11. 2020 20:09:16
jax, can you please explain what "common sense" is. Thanks.
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SamoK17. 11. 2020 20:09:43
Or journeyman, whoever first mežikanje
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ljubitelj gora17. 11. 2020 20:40:58
There hasn't been freedom for quite some time. Unless you smuggle yourself in, that's a different story.
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Zebdi17. 11. 2020 20:57:53
journeyman, maybe some additional reading:
https://www.zdravniskazbornica.si/informacije-publikacije-in-analize/obvestila/2020/10/01/epidemija-covid-19-odgovori-na-dileme-zdravni%C5%A1kih-kolegov

https://www.zdravniskazbornica.si/informacije-publikacije-in-analize/obvestila/2020/11/16/to%C4%8Dka-zloma-je-to-%C5%A1tirinajsti-zaporedni-delovni-dan-7-ur-v-skafandru-ali-pa-zadnja-zasedena-postelja-in-klic-za-nov-sprejem

@jax: this about common sense is unfortunately utopian. Clear example is the introduction of mandatory mask wearing outdoors; if you remember, previously it was mandatory if sufficient distance couldn't be ensured. Then Bregant nicely explained why they tightened it - for control. So no more dilemma if the distance was sufficient or not. And far from me liking the measure. I don't like it, but I understand why they introduced it.

I agree that the government is ripe for removal (mildly put). Kacin, Hojs, Krek and Janša are the worst that could happen. You really have to search for such patients with a magnifying glass. On the other side you have Ihan, Logar, Rozman.. who know what they're talking about - and above all know how to talk.

The problem is that the government instead of ensuring basic measures introduces always new ones, no result though - because it's unable to enforce even the first basic ones. Consequence is health system on the verge of collapse. Problem for others will come when they can't get necessary health care.
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zokipoki17. 11. 2020 20:59:41
The measures are, hand on heart, stupid, like we stupid people, unfortunately. But it is what it is. Lots of nonsense and contradictions, as well as facts that can't be denied. What can we do, we have to go through this with as little anger and unnecessary conflict as possible. Anger worsens every situation. Let's hope for the best and be responsible.
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journeyman17. 11. 2020 21:14:02
Zebdi, your links are based on the assumption that Covid 19 disease is caused by a virus named Sars-cov 2. Here's the problem - no one has managed to isolate this virus (which proves its existence) and prove that it causes the disease.
But that doesn't mean people aren't sick and don't die. It means deaths from other causes are thrown into one basket, thus justifying repression.
Key are the misleading tests: if we didn't test, no one would talk about a pandemic. People would die from other causes, as they have until now.
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SamoK17. 11. 2020 21:36:33
>no one has managed to isolate this virus (which proves its existence) and prove that it causes the disease.

True. And they haven't proven yet that man walked on the Moon or that the Earth is round!
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jax17. 11. 2020 21:56:03
Well, I really wouldn't dive into conspiracy theories. The virus exists, don't worry. Of course there are very legitimate questions about how dangerous it really is, especially what price we're paying for this current containment at any cost. And the fact that we have a government whose at least some ministers openly flirt with fascism certainly doesn't help. But to be clear, I never claimed that at least reasonable protective measures shouldn't be kept in place until further notice.
And I think that's the point of all this - protective measures must be such that we can say without hypocrisy that they apply "until further notice" or even long-term. Sure, I miss a good concert too. But damn it, that's how it is. Accept it. These Hojs's madnesses about municipal lockdowns just aren't sustainable long-term, so questions about duration inevitably follow and that disgusting hypocrisy about "another 14 days".
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dragon17. 11. 2020 22:07:53
It's becoming more and more obvious that some aren't bothered by limiting freedom, but by the fact that it's Janša's government limiting freedom.
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journeyman18. 11. 2020 07:51:52
There, as I wrote yesterday. The phrase "conspiracy theory" dismisses any doubt in official stories. Anyway, now at least you know there are other explanations and views. What convinces you and what you believe is your decision. I have no will to debate endlessly here what is and what isn't.
Just adding this. Watch the social changes that are happening and will happen as a result of this "pandemic". Maybe then something dawns on someone. Problem-reaction-solution.
Good luck.
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Zebdi18. 11. 2020 08:14:31
Social changes have happened and will happen, what's strange about that? The last big one here was independence in '91. As for other explanations and views - people claim all sorts of things, but that doesn't mean they're right. Flat earth society is quite loud velik nasmeh

Anyway, UKC MB invites volunteers into its ranks. I know volunteers help in UKC LJ too. Maybe join them and convince yourself first-hand about "other views and explanations"?
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MitjaBelak18. 11. 2020 08:25:07
As a curiosity. Just passing it on and not convincing anyone of it, understand that.
I stumbled upon this in summer, and thoroughly read OPERATION LOCKSTEP. There are various articles about it. Many, so no link, everyone research for themselves if interested.
The chronology is very well defined, and if one thinks a bit about it, quickly finds oneself among those points. Current situation could be equated somewhere between 9 and 10.
But the trouble is from 13 onwards. Time will surely bring its own, in any case we're selling freedom very cheaply. When we lose it completely, we'll realize what we had. True, not everyone loses everything ever.
Just the conclusion of that article. But this is debate for elsewhere.

On June 21, Ghana's President Nana Akufo-Addo publicly announced the plan to destroy the world economy and enslave humanity. He said he's reading from a 2010 Rockefeller Foundation document, but it must have been another Rockefeller document "Operation Lockstep".

Ghana President Nana Akufo-Addo. Here's a short outline of his main points confirming our worst fears. This pandemic was planned ten years ago in detail.
1. Create a low mortality virus in Fort Detrick, NJ.
2. Create a high mortality combat variant as backup to use as needed.
3. For "extra denial" transfer it to bioweapons lab in Winnipeg, "where Chinese scientists will steal it and smuggle to Wuhan".
4. Make its spread look like accident. Blame Wuhan wet market.
5. In October 2019 conduct real simulation. That's EVENT201.
6. Plan vaccination of human race provided by digital ID and "health passports". (That's ID 2020.)
7. Allow human-to-human contact so strain can spread before lockdown starts.
8. Expand lockdown scope.
9. "INCREASE" death toll to spread fear. Attribute all deaths to Covid 19.
10. Hold lockdown as long as possible to destroy economy, break supply chains and cause social unrest.
11. Ease lockdown briefly, then blame "increase" for even worse and more restrictive new lockdown. Blame "increase" on protesters - "we told you!"
12. Suppress public outrage with brutal force and portray dissenters as "public enemies".
13. Introduce vaccinations and passports. People can't participate in society without both.
14. If majority wakes up to this conspiracy, release new virus with 30% mortality and say: "we told you!"

And the conclusion of all this.

If you have chance to quickly relocate to Mexico or South America, I suggest you do it - now! This IS destruction of life as God intended it, NOT a test or trial, this is endgame for those satanic talmudists and their myrmidons who for centuries planned to have this world for themselves. They weren't modest about it and for decades publicly say they want to reduce world population by 85% to 95%. That means with today's technology they think they need only 5%-15% percentage of those who live today as their slaves. They plan to kill the rest, mass murders of Soviet and Red China were tests, this time their plan is actual murder of world majority. If this sounds too crazy to believe, yes, it's madness in most satanic form, but better believe it and act if you have minimal chance of your or your family's survival. This madness has been proven over centuries that it has no conscience and no scruples about ANY LIFE, your wife and children WILL NOT be spared.
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jax18. 11. 2020 08:29:33
Hey. Measures against virus spread are crazy and absolutely against any principles of common sense. But please, they really don't need to counter with these lunatic ideas. Point is to advocate reasonableness, not to propagate one's own variant of unreasonableness!
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dprapr18. 11. 2020 09:26:06
MitjaBelak, your only solution, as I could read from your long text, is thus emigration to South America.
Good that you at least chose a country with beautiful mountains. On this forum we're grateful to you for the offered solution out of this lockdownnasmeh
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UB7718. 11. 2020 09:33:59
Just really, and tequila in streams! Already bursting my suitcases!velik nasmehvelik nasmehvelik nasmeh

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jax18. 11. 2020 09:58:45
About South America hard to say, they also have quite some problems with the virus. But yesterday I came up with an interesting idea, after realizing people go climbing in the Algerian Sahara too.

Say this one, bolted 4th grade, looks purely enjoyable:
https://www.montagnabiellese.com/avancorpo-del-tizouyag-via-vent-de-sable/

Anyway, it tempts one to retreat for a month among the Bedouins in the desert, drink tea with them a bit, escape this circus, climb something along the way and return when this passes. Sure easier said than done, but the idea is very tempting - putting it out for others to consider too ...
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SamoK18. 11. 2020 10:08:05
How old are you? 15 years?
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