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| andi222. 12. 2020 06:46:07 |
Here we're back to the personal decision of each individual. We'll never get rid of minks and Corona transmission in the world, because unfortunately there lived a gentleman who discovered the bell curve distribution, and one who says that bread falls jam-side down on the carpet. My personal decision (and I said I don't believe much in aerosols on the marsh) is to politely step aside for every person in the mountains, especially if older. And on a narrow path pull a buff over mouth/nose and wash hands with soap a bit more often during the day. I think I haven't saved the world with this. Probably someone can tell me that I belong among the minks too. It's just my private peasant logic based on personal infection experiences.
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| ppegan22. 12. 2020 09:42:04 |
And has there already been any study done that proves you can get infected outside in fresh air during close encounter if you don't use a buff or mask? I'm seriously interested. Or what is the probability of getting infected that way? You'd really have to have luck, really, to get infected in those few seconds when you meet someone, even if you say something. The chance is minimal or transmission would only be possible if someone sneezes directly at you or coughs towards you, and even that not necessarily.
Let me explain why I think so. Neighbor had fever for two days, coughed a little, so the doctor sent her for testing. The result showed positive. Two days before she got sick, I was hanging out with her, so during the time she was most contagious. We sat outside on the terrace at the table, meaning less than half a meter distance between us. We were together about an hour. Neighbor smokes too. None of us who were hanging out then, when she was already contagious, got sick. How so? By the logic of those who believe you can get infected on close encounter, all of us who were with her then should have gotten sick, especially since we hung out for a whole hour at much less than 2 meters distance. But we didn't. We did isolate for 10 days anyway when we found out she was infected. And so no one sticks into our hanging out, we did it when it was still allowed.
Regarding meetings in mountains maybe this. I already before corona stepped aside for people on narrow paths, since I don't like if someone passes very close to me, because that's my personal space (like I don't like someone breathing down my neck in store line at checkout). Or if descending, I always stepped aside for those ascending, as mountaineering etiquette dictates. If ascending, it wasn't a problem for me to step one step aside. And I didn't need any government recommendation or measure for that, just some brains and courtesy 
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| andi222. 12. 2020 10:32:37 |
Polona, with studies we'll have to wait for them to balance from different environments and different virus strains. Some exist of course (e.g. Primož above or search PubMed yourself). Maybe professional athletes or tracking of infections in their population can actually give the most answers here. Regarding spread among us... The one who gets infected by sheer bad luck (as I mention - jam and new carpet) will of course advocate the possibility of aerosols and marsh. The one who doesn't get infected even if an infected person sneezes directly into his mouth during a kiss, will of course smile the other way. Some healthy protection makes sense anyway (we probably all agree on that when we crowd in stores?), for everything else it's luck/chance here? I don't know, I'm not smart.
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| ppegan22. 12. 2020 10:59:10 |
Andi, surely some healthy protection makes sense, like mask in indoor spaces. I know cases where colleagues got infected together in the office. No dilemma there. I'm exclusively interested in the possibility of infection transmission outside in fresh air in those few seconds when you meet someone e.g. in the forest or mountains, because some up here so fervently advocate mask use in such cases. What is the probability?
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| Bandzo22. 12. 2020 11:55:20 |
The probability for that is very small.
As you mentioned, even in nature people mostly turn away when sneezing, coughing. Outside in the open, droplets disperse faster and the probability that they “find” us is smaller. Higher probability for infection is excessive handling of the mask, since with hands we touch so many things that we sometimes aren't even aware of them.
And lots of health and safe steps further.
Ben
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| redbull22. 12. 2020 12:12:47 |
Polona, that interests me too and I was quite scared to ask because of Primož. Probably now he'll paste a few links and prove that an infection percentage of 0.5% is possible
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| ppegan22. 12. 2020 12:25:11 |
Ben, I agree, my peasant wisdom works that way too.
Dejan, I think quite a few people have similar reservations as you, they'd rather stay quiet than ask or comment, because the on-duty know-it-all is already getting on their nerves a lot or they don't have the energy to poke at him. Quite a few people from this portal contacted me on FB because of my comments in this thread, where we chatted pleasantly, but none of them had anything nice to say about him
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| VanSims22. 12. 2020 12:53:09 |
Here, I'm not quiet, or rather I've already said something above.
When meeting just passing by, practically no chance of transmission, unless someone happens to sneeze or cough then (see the example I mentioned in this post).
Now, if you stop for a short time, hmmm if it's a super-spreader? What about the new strain that's more contagious and surely already here? Then there's a probability, small but still.
If in longer contact then the probability is higher. Of course, not every such contact means transmission. Even with AIDS they made a bit too much panic than needed, even in unprotected homosexual intercourse the transmission chance is 1:50 if one is infected (on average of course), for hetero male 1:1000 and female 1:500.
And with corona it's similar. Outside really lower chance but still. We put on a mask just in case and keep distance. Of course in indoor spaces the chance is higher because the virus has limited range of movement, because lots of people together, because no ventilation (haven't seen them ventilate in a shop for example, if they even have windows),...
So, I don't know why you wouldn't dare to say it. 
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| ppegan22. 12. 2020 13:12:52 |
VanSims, keep posting, you don't bother me  Many don't post because you attack them here as if they were the biggest fools, just because they said something that contradicts the opinion of certain know-it-alls. You've done it to me too
I'm glad we agree on this. I think you can't get infected outside during a casual encounter, even without a mask. In general, I think it's hard to get infected outside (unless someone sneezes or coughs right in your face).
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| dprapr22. 12. 2020 13:14:02 |
I said I won't post anymore, but when someone here boasts that they "pleasantly chatted" somewhere about someone from this forum...
That used to be called gossiping, what it's called now, hard to say. Oh, now it's know-it-alls.
Dejan, if you dared to ask me a couple things, you'll surely muster the courage to ask Primož.
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| ppegan22. 12. 2020 14:30:27 |
Drago, we didn't pleasantly chat about someone from this forum, you're misinterpreting or I expressed myself awkwardly. We chatted pleasantly about mountains, tours we've done, and we also commented on the debates here and then no one had anything nice to say about the person in question. There were no bad words or gossip, just that we all have enough of him because he's smart about everything, of course, since he's eaten all the knowledge of the world, which several people have already written in comments here too. Nice that you defend him
Since it's December and pre-Christmas time, we can be a bit charitable. On Radio 1 there's a 28-hour charity marathon. Whoever can, send SMS with content POMAGAM1 or POMAGAM5 to 1919. Together we can do a lot for those in need. And sent
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| VanSims22. 12. 2020 14:41:08 |
As for Primož, it's just that you created him yourselves. You over every one of his posts, he back. Doesn't matter if his post is inappropriate or your reaction.
If you don't like him, don't read him and especially don't comment. But obviously both enjoy it, can't without each other. Obviously both like to play this game.
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| julius22. 12. 2020 15:15:40 |
As for Primož, VanSims is right. If I sum it all up in an old folk saying:
Dr.. the more you stir it, the more it stinks!
In short, leave him alone, don't comment on his writings and don't reply when he snaps at our writings.
To everything written so far, I'd just add the famous Einstein quote:
Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe. But I'm not quite sure about the universe.
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| Sorok22. 12. 2020 17:00:42 |
And a little gargle in the oral cavity, just in case, logical. It's just alcohol after all.
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| VanSims22. 12. 2020 18:01:24 |
I won the bet! Upon @julius's post I went to bet with myself that they wouldn't hold out long. True though, I also didn't think it would be so fast!
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| Bandzo22. 12. 2020 18:06:10 |
Sincere congrats VanSims!
True that it always takes two
Anyway this is my 3rd post on these 60 pages but sometimes one has time.
Regards,
Ben
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| Majdag22. 12. 2020 18:29:24 |
Every smile counts..
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| Bandzo22. 12. 2020 18:42:17 |
Primož,
I don't amateurishly deal with all topics that interest you and direct energy to topics that mean something to me. Here and there I chime in on more general debates too. Unfortunately you didn't answer any question I raised, just posed your questions without comments. Hope at least you understand p-values. Same happened here too.
For trying reasonable talk with you (first time in my who knows how many years on forum) I do penance and apologize thank you for showing us the true path: yours, the one and only
See VanSims you can take me out of equation and bet with yourself again
Nice peaceful evening,
Ben
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| Dr.ejči22. 12. 2020 21:32:57 |
Hmmmmm, interesting...what then becomes "natural scientist" if you take graphs, equations, apps, statistics from him ....???...social scientist????...philosopher???...or just "farmer" with "peasant" smarts??? ....anyway natural sciences always suited me... but by soul then...????...hmmmm really interesting.......oh, čer, anything new? 
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