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| dprapr15. 07. 2012 10:49:40 |
Going with "small children" to an unknown trail in the high mountains is an irresponsible act. Information about the trail is not enough; we must hike it ourselves first. If the ascent to the mountain is our wish, that does not mean the tour is suitable for kids too. For them, we must take time and choose a suitable tour.
If kids already have lots of mileage in the high mountains, such questions are unnecessary and just "raise the temperature" on the forum.
I don't agree that on the mentioned peaks "one can't stumble". One can stumble where one least expects.
Accidents usually happen on easier terrain, where attention slips.
Regards
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| petruša15. 07. 2012 11:01:44 |
SkipEU, you have a private message...
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| Pohodnica5615. 07. 2012 12:10:30 |
I'll join this debate a bit about mountains and children. I'm as old as the number in my nick. I haven't gone to mountains from a young age, started late, not top class, just a hiker, but I want to "poison" grandkids with mountain beauty too. Yet I fully agree with Igor Zloděj, I appreciate him though I don't know him personally, I follow his advice and like reading them, and dprapr wrote nicely too. First hike the path ourselves. And I add, teach kids or grandkids to love mountains, every flower by the path, views that open up, tree spreading roots on rocks and could list more. Let the child feel the mountain itself, let the mountain feel it too. The rest comes. Yes I know, someone will say babbling nonsense. Old proverb holds: mountain not crazy.... sadly many crazies go to mountains. True, accidents at home too, but still worth thinking, life is only one. I wish all mountaineers a safe step and as many beautiful experiences as possible in our beautiful mountains.
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| John15. 07. 2012 12:14:26 |
Well, let me add something to this "hot" debate too - SkipEU, I think with kids to Mangart wait a bit more. Mangart will surely wait.
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| urbancek15. 07. 2012 13:25:45 |
Well, hand on heart, Italian, that is usual and simultaneously easier path to Mangart is not that demanding either... Really don't see serious technical problems, even for those a bit smaller... 
But it is a high-altitude trail and as such requires from parents exactly what befits all trails of that kind (child protection, their nutrition, hydration...). Especially watch for slips, also some loose rocks can fly from the summit slope...
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| juhejnaprej15. 07. 2012 15:35:51 |
I understand that some of you are concerned about safety in the mountains, but the decision is primarily up to the parents. Our role here shouldn't be constant moralizing and accusing "irresponsible" parents etc., but simply providing the most accurate information possible so people can make the best decisions.
My father took me to the mountains as a little kid and always assessed well what I could handle and what not, and even on tougher tours like Mangart, we went without helmets or self-belay kits (different times), and nothing dangerous ever happened. He knew what he was doing...
To cut it short, my "point" is that age isn't as important as the parent knowing as much as possible about their own and the child's abilities and the mountain they're heading to. Whether they've never been to Mangart before matters less than their shared experiences.
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| urbancek15. 07. 2012 16:09:33 |
Juhejnaprej, well said! With all this moralizing lately, I wanted to write something similar myself...
The key to good judgment on a tour is also good knowledge, connection and bond between parents and children, which we know what it's like today... Due to fast pace and more, kids and parents can be "strangers". Then the parent doesn't know well what the kid can do, what it's used to etc., but wants to do a tour together??!
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| velesa15. 07. 2012 16:12:37 |
But this is the Mangart thread and not about kids in the mountains
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| petruša15. 07. 2012 21:14:08 |
I don't know why there are always so many reproaches about children in the mountains. Why, when someone asks what the path is like and if it's suitable with kids, so many bad opinions. I've asked many times if the path is suitable with kids and always such dilemmas as if our kids aren't for the mountains. I think every parent knows how capable their kid is for our mountains. If someone asks about a path, I think it's good if someone describes what the path is like instead of saying it's not suitable for the child. When I asked about one path, they also told me the path isn't for kids, but we went anyway and the path wasn't hard or dangerous at all. That's all about children in our mountains
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| dprapr15. 07. 2012 22:04:58 |
Petruša, every tip is well-meant in its own way, though sometimes it doesn't look like it!
Such trail ratings that we get from the forum are highly subjective and we shouldn't fully rely on them if we're not sure of our own abilities. Especially if the safety of our children depends on it. Anyone who gives advice to such a parent, in my view, also takes on some responsibility for the success of that tour. Namely, they can mislead the parent with their subjective assessment to embark on a path they might not have without that advice. It's hard to give advice without a guilty conscience to someone you don't know and don't know how your advice will affect the course of the tour.
Don't forget the specialist literature that Igor already mentioned. The path descriptions there are the most reliable. On the forum, it's smart to ask about the current state of the path, snow conditions, paths not covered in the literature, and so on. And if all that still isn't enough, there are clubs that safely guide us to the desired mountain.
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| urbancek15. 07. 2012 22:13:36 |
Yes, I agree, but this responsibility you're talking about is two-sided. The parent also bears responsibility for what they read... Because, if they rely completely only on what they read and what someone wrote, it doesn't mean that it's actually true...
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| korl16. 07. 2012 06:50:23 |
There's always some "sheriff" who wants to make order, but only creates quarrel because some go along with him, others who think with their own head don't.
No need to underestimate parents that they don't know how to care for their children! For themselves maybe not always, for them yes.
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| juhejnaprej16. 07. 2012 07:52:05 |
Good, opinions are given, as velesa already suggested, it would be nice to conclude this topic, because it really doesn't belong here. If someone wants to continue the debate, let's open a new topic...
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| GregorC19. 07. 2012 15:05:56 |
Today I ascended to Mangart summit and down the Italian path. Around half past seven I was at the top and didn't meet a living soul . I met the first hikers only at the start of the via ferrata (in ascent direction). But then a dense column to the saddle. Equipment disaster. As if going to Šmarna gora. Helmets max 10 of us had. Quite a few in sneakers, some girl even in Vans!!!! We all know what soles they have ... In short, I feel Mangart is underestimated by many due to high start and relatively low height difference. Not to say some were shaking already past Travnik.
Otherwise it was really great. Just camera or batteries failed (spares too) .
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| Padalka19. 07. 2012 16:04:18 |
Yes, I too wonder exactly that... you meet people on quite demanding paths and shod in such a way that you don't know whether to laugh or cry. They are irresponsible to themselves and of course to others too... Such are very dangerous. Myself recently met young girls who went on quite tricky path in ballerinas and almost dresses... it's unbelievable... And Mangart, true fairly high starting point, but don't underestimate the path. Something happens all too quickly...
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| LidijaJesih27. 07. 2012 19:29:10 |
Despite it being Friday today, there was a queue on the descent via the Italian path from Mangart, accordingly stones were bouncing down the slope too. Yeah, I know, you have to go up in winter That's why there was no special crowd on the Slovenian path, weather pleasantly fresh, views heavenly, company too . Locals collect an ecological tax of 5€ on the road by Mangartska planina, you get an educational brochure about the landscape and Mangart. On the way back, a stop at the planina for the famous sheep cheese, which is really good, 16€ per kilogram.
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| ljubitelj gora15. 08. 2012 18:05:58 |
I had nothing planned, but due to bad sleep I decided to go to Mangart to watch the sunrise + later went to the neighboring peak (then to Montaz), around 4.30 I parked at the saddle, no one anywhere, headlamp on head and path under feet, rocks smooth-wet, on summit in under an hour and waiting for sunrise, up in complete silence 1 hour, return but huge crowd of people in column up from Slovenian, heard lots of rattling as small rocks flew down, in the wall 20-30 people.
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| Marky16. 08. 2012 12:39:11 |
I too for the holiday 15.8.2012 climbed Mangart. Since I'm from MB, I started the path the day before and overnighted in the hut AT Mangart saddle. First, the hut nicely surprised me, because for overnight, ričet and morning coffee I paid only 13.5€ ... at 1902m.. so cheap not even in the valley
Well, later up the Slovenian to the summit and down the Italian. On the summit, which I conquered around 11.30, there were already 122 people logged before me, you know what kind of crowd it was.
The path itself is super. Slovenian nicely surprised me, not as demanding as expected, while Italian is less demanding, but due to scree and slippery rocks much more dangerous 
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| Bandzo16. 08. 2012 13:56:35 |
Nothing to it. This Mangart is really a super tour. Yesterday, 15.8.2012 with my girl up the Slovenian path down the Italian. I expected the Slovenian to be much harder, but it is very well secured and the first slightly more demanding experience was wonderful. Caution certainly not superfluous. I agree with Marky when he described the Italian path. When we were returning, people walked down so carefree that they triggered some rocks. Crowd definitely the downside of this wonderful mountain, which will see me again.
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