|
| tol20. 01. 2010 19:31:38 |
Let me say that my thoughts are purely theoretical.
So there are backpacks that offer a greater chance to survive an avalanche.
http://www.promontana.si/spletna-trgovina/izdelek/3383/life_bag_30l_nahrbtnik/
Since the thing is quite expensive, like all avalanche gear  I'm thinking about the following.
What if I had some inflatable thing (water arm float, small inflatable ball) tied with a light rope and if avalanche triggers, I'd simply throw it away. So the inflatable object would act as a buoy and others would locate you easier.
Would it work and would the inflatable stay on the avalanche surface or sink under snow weight?
Your opinion?
|
|
|
|
| turbo20. 01. 2010 19:42:23 |
I recommend you buy lots of helium balloons  . Then attach them to the backpack, and attach 10 to 15 kg weights around the waist. If an avalanche gets you, throw the weights from the waist and the balloons lift you those few meters out of trouble!!!
P.S. My thinking is also more theoretical...
|
|
|
|
| viharnik20. 01. 2010 20:06:59 |
If you're lucky then you survive, otherwise not. Mountaineer going to mountains can reduce avalanche risk a lot preventively with snowpack stability test, route choice in mountains, securing critical sections, snow travel method, avoiding couloirs, windloaded traps at wall tops, sunny slopes or shady loose snow slopes, spring grassy steeps etc. Novelties are just one aid for mountaineer. One is device to breathe when buried. But no way we can be carefree with such gear, otherwise caricatured all with car ABS airbags would survive crashes.
|
|
|
|
| JusAvgustin20. 01. 2010 20:16:14 |
I wonder how many from forum (or generally) actually do snowpack stability test or is it just theory? People are too little educated on winter mountain travel... I notice whenever I go hiking. Avalung is proven and supposedly works! Also self-inflating airbag helps keep you on surface not pulled into avalanche.
|
|
|
|
| turbo20. 01. 2010 20:42:34 |
Tol, if you read between the lines you'd see I'm joking...
Long before avalanche airbags, avalanche (probe) cord was used (long bright color). This cord should work on principle Tol mentioned above. If avalanche got you, throw cord and with luck end stays on surface. Cord had markers (arrows) pointing to victim (cord tied to body waist etc). How well it worked old ski tourers and old rescue team know.
Personally I think besides ice axe crampons helmet airbag should slowly become standard gear for every mountaineer (not just ski tourer). Of course plus all Viharnik wrote above.
|
|
|
|
| lynx21. 01. 2010 14:02:20 |
|
|
|
|
| marco21. 01. 2010 16:27:49 |
Quote:
"http://www.gore-ljudje.net/novosti/51977/
Highly recommend!"
Agree, was there twice few years ago consecutive two years - excellent thing!
|
|
|
|
| tol21. 01. 2010 18:53:43 |
I already attended one course, if there's time I'll go to this one too.
But I'm still interested if the inflatable stays on the avalanche surface?
|
|
|
|
| spetovar22. 01. 2010 14:44:46 |
I'd agree with attending the course. Better spent money than this backpack. Haven't tried it or anything, but when you see orange avalanche airbag, I don't know... Uprooted trees broken like toothpicks, huge chunks in the avalanche itself,... Even if it keeps you on surface. It's like buying avalanche transceiver, then you're the only one in a group of 5
|
|
|
|
| tol22. 01. 2010 14:54:12 |
@spetovar
You said it as if avalanche transceivers, probe and shovel are just tools for digging out corpses....
|
|
|
|
| spetovar25. 01. 2010 09:12:52 |
I believe you have better chances to survive if the whole group has those tools, than if they don't have them. But how much better is the question. As I say, if you see orange avalanche airbag, you wonder how it's possible to survive such a thing at all, regardless of burial. The sheer force of the avalanche is terrifying. As for the hyped transceivers, they don't help at all if you're the only one in the group. If you don't know where the buried person is, probe and shovel don't help much. That's a pity here. Abroad there are many more of those devices. Otherwise there's some truth in what you wrote.
|
|
|
|
| spetovar25. 01. 2010 09:57:38 |
Yeah what can I say. The guy had incredible luck to survive without injuries! Though that's very rare. I'm not saying this backpack doesn't work as promoted. I just say, if possible, better prevent than cure. More important than this backpack (or any avalanche gear) is prior knowledge and awareness of conditions. Even transceiver and probe don't help much if you only have theoretical knowledge of how they should work. As I wrote, I talked to mountain rescuers who had training, yet they buried 5 transceivers and they dug them out in 45 min. If those were people, you know what they'd be digging... Also important as Mihelič said: "My best climbing partner was always luck."
Don't fool yourself: Alpinism in winter conditions or high altitudes is never 100% safe. Regardless of gear. You have to take that into account before you even go. But I don't say dedicated gear doesn't help at all.
|
|
|
|
| sunflower25. 01. 2010 17:50:14 |
just for intermezzo....
http://vimeo.com/6581009
and if this rescue seemed long to you, let me reassure...as the note says, it was almost record fast....
he had LUCK!
|
|
|
|
| JusAvgustin31. 01. 2010 19:33:06 |
was at the Annapurna presentation at Rudno polje. maybe bad weather contributed to the number of people but anyway, those who often go to mountains MUST! have the trio. Pieps complete set isn't even that expensive 199.99 euros, while in Iglu around 250 euros I think. However, in my opinion it's worth spending more for transceiver, as there's essential difference between freeride transceiver and http://www.sportsman.si/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=1080&osCsid=493153d14fa6c6395bd9ac2c9d118237 . But the backpack price seems a bit exaggerated to me, though human life has no price! Stay safe!
|
|
|
|
| viharnik31. 01. 2010 19:51:43 |
a while ago I also read an article on rescue and testing of novelties in avalanche safety and its rescue on little Matterhorn above Zermatt. The article was quite long. At the end they gave test results of avalanche transceivers efficiency, where Pieps led strongly in all aspects, very close was Ortovox, Mammut product surprisingly last. What that means in real situations is big question, regarding burial way, since time for digging is only 15min. With powder avalanche no more help. Anyway most efficient transceiver saves some minutes for mountaineer who flawlessly masters the device and search/dig procedure.
|
|
|
|
| spetovar1. 02. 2010 09:31:14 |
Jerry, thanks for this link. Worth checking it out.
|
|
|
|
| tol9. 02. 2010 23:18:55 |
Obviously I wasn't the only one thinking in that direction.
http://www.gore-ljudje.net/objava/52750/
I still don't understand:
1. Why safety gear isn't exempt from VAT here (e.g. helmets, avalanche gear,..)
2. Why avalanche gear is so expensive (avalanche probe 60 EUR+ for alu rods with thread)
avalanche transceiver 200 EUR+. Considering you get a DVD player for 20 EUR already. A device that receives and transmits radio signals for 200 EUR+. The only good reason I've seen is that the avalanche transceiver must never fail and its production must be really precise.
|
|
|
|
| tol9. 02. 2010 23:27:49 |
Just so there are no accusations that I shouldn't skimp on my own life etc...
All fine and good. Even if I have full avalanche gear and 80% of other hikers don't, the avalanche transceiver only helps when rescuers come to bag you.
With this avalanche airbag you'd probably save your life sooner in our mountains than with the transceiver, unfortunately.
Anyway, the purpose of the topic was to spark discussion, but it's not going so well.
|
|
|
You must log in to post a comment:
If you do not yet have a username, you must first
register.