Challenge in the mountains
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| ljubitelj gora19. 02. 2013 10:30:28 |
We are missing such a topic on the forum about boldness in the mountains, about incomplete gear when conditions demand it, challenging misfortune, improper roping of hikers, heroism. Last accident below Kamniški Dedec, touring skier went towards the hill despite 3rd degree. http://www.kamnican.si/smrt-v-kamniskih-planinah-planinca-iz-kamnika-zasul-plaz/ Looks like suicide, as rescuers barely reached him according to reports. Last accident on Nanos, icy ground but hiker continued and slipped. Challenging misfortune or even death. Not long ago I saw on this portal a group of hikers going to Kokrsko saddle roped up, mountain rescuer passes and photographs them without permission (improperly roped). Accident on way to Kredarica, 3rd degree that day buried Ruth, dog survived, same day someone wrote he was also partially buried and barely escaped. Why do people rush into the mountains despite serious warnings. Or accident on Begunjščica, skiing south side, what is that heroism. I wonder if people literally commit suicide. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about it, it's their decision what to do in mountains, where to move. On one hand we learn from these stories, reflect, on the other hand there is a limit to how much we interfere in others' decisions.
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| Alfista19. 02. 2013 10:55:00 |
Do you remember LG, how a few weeks ago you posted a pic of Begunjščica as suitable goal for that weekend. Do you maybe still remember what happened then?
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| Daaam19. 02. 2013 11:00:11 |
LG I suggest you delete the thread immediately, it will just be arguing and fu.....ng. These are just philosophical questions..
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| luky6819. 02. 2013 11:10:23 |
I agree, the topic is otherwise great, but expecting constructive debate is utopia..
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| tulipan19. 02. 2013 15:22:47 |
I will hike as I like, says
L.G., initiator of new forum on boldness in mountains.
Number 231 of his posts this year is in inverse proportion to their quality.
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| viharnik19. 02. 2013 17:25:29 |
I have nothing against LG as a person, but lately his statements annoy me quite a bit.
Fun is always welcome, but must be within certain bounds and limits, especially when at the expense of common safety in the mountains. Otherwise even the most careful mountaineer can easily due to circumstances or small carelessness end up in a difficult accident situation, without additionally risking and tempting fate. If already, let the action be well thought out with safe outcome and such experiences.
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| Holcar219. 02. 2013 18:07:15 |
Can someone tell me why you all have something against LG? If he has stupid statements just don't read them, I'd say.
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| Holcar219. 02. 2013 18:28:52 |
Yeah what did he write that's so bad e.g.? I'll read it myself, but everyone should know (even beginners) that not everything on forums is reliable. If I'm really unsure about conditions, I preferably call ARSO, sometimes ask someone on forum but I have enough experience not to tackle Begunjščica at 3., 4. degree of avalanche danger
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| VanSims19. 02. 2013 18:43:14 |
@Karahawk: ARSO?
Don't know if I read on this forum or elsewhere, that two went somewhere to hills, think to KSA. Morning forecast said no rain, but when arrived at start it was still raining so they set off, saying forecast no rain, it will stop.
Well after about two hours walking still raining so much they called duty meteorologist at ARSO on mobile and he told them nowhere in Slovenia is raining! 
I can imagine some Pečenek on other side: "Nowhere in Slovenia raining... have a nice day!" 
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| Holcar219. 02. 2013 18:46:23 |
Mhm ARSO page is extremely hard to navigate, hard to find what you seek; I rather rely on hribi.net (weather) and forum posts, if I don't judge them stupid. However, meteorologists have been wrong many times in world history. 
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| VanSims19. 02. 2013 18:50:17 |
Yes they are fallible, yes.
My experiences are worst with ARSO and also vreme.net is so-so.
Hribi.net by my experience hit very well, for lowland areas accuweather.net is the law.
Otherwise for our Julijce better forecasts by Italians, for KSA and Karavanke Austrians.
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| Holcar219. 02. 2013 18:59:36 |
By the way: for several weeks now the temperature on Grossglockner/Velik Klek on hribi.net has been "only" -9 degrees, while on Triglav it's forecasted -12.
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| Holcar219. 02. 2013 19:00:54 |
And Veliki Klek is nearly 1000 meters higher than Triglav
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| ljubitelj gora19. 02. 2013 20:16:47 |
There's already an open topic about the weather. To me this topic seems appropriate, since I didn't find anything similar in old posts. The purpose is to write about a broader issue not just challenging in mountains. But I think I don't write anything on this portal that would put anyone in serious danger as posts are of "forum" nature.
P.s. (a bit of my history, if you don't mind, or skip) In the past I had quite a few turbulent events, experiences in mountains, don't know if it was challenge, heroism, suicide or something else entirely, but writing about it isn't easy when tears pour before. Even on rock I sat after event wondering what was that, why, for what, how next...While posting about current conditions on a mountain I also added that experience with few words. Each of us differently capable in mountains, has own threshold how far to go, how much risk to take, challenge, go over ability limit ignore snow conditions. After all those events or even challenge I thought deeply and go to mountains differently now. Much more afraid, which is justified, if not afraid less cautious. At 3rd grade I'd rather go to Vošca again.
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| dprapr20. 02. 2013 08:50:30 |
LG, high time you go to some training course, then many things will be clearer to you. This is well-meant advice, though I'm not really a fan of advice.
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| ljubitelj gora20. 02. 2013 11:34:33 |
P.s. No panic for such tours as described on hribi.net (cjajnik, Veliki Oltar, via della Vita - path of life) and also harder winter tours, but demanding pathless terrain where you face a series of difficulties, orientation, II-III.. grade, some challenge.
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| tol20. 02. 2013 12:59:07 |
@ LG: Haven't you just answered your own question? > "Why despite serious warnings folk rush to mountains?"
"After all these events or even challenge I have thought deeply and I go to mountains differently now. Much more afraid, which is justified, if you're not afraid you're less cautious."
To K. Deca I'd go myself on such occasion, the hill really doesn't look dangerous. Sometimes you can just have a real accident, or if you believe in fate, it was written in the stars anyway.
Everyone sometimes does some stupidity, it depends on luck how "expensive" such lesson was...
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| ljubitelj gora20. 02. 2013 13:47:24 |
Because it goes in one ear and out the other, wouldn't it be better to write in general.
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| tinky20. 02. 2013 15:51:53 |
The other day in the middle of Ljubljana a car almost ran me over !!!!!
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| SunBurned20. 02. 2013 15:55:53 |
I think this section is quite well set or useful. Namely, it could be some kind of "confessional" where users write about stupidities (with happy end) they did in mountains. Unfortunately the author (LG) doesn't seem "real" or not taken seriously enough so by default the section is kinda useless, philosophical and whatever else. Maybe it would be smart if he himself concretely describes his own imprudence (what, when, why, possible consequences, lesson).
Others could learn something.
And my 2 cents:
many years ago when I was a complete beginner in mountaineering or rather hiking then, I totally missed the path from Velika Planina back to the valley (don't remember exact start). Despite the path obviously going steeper into the abyss, I didn't turn back. Reason? Had no mountain maps with me, route description (too "poetic" anyway) only partially jotted on paper. Lacked experience to realize reality differs too much from description, pushed on till return same way impossible. From that "gully" got out clutching sparse grass on muddy side "wall" and belly crawling "on friction". If slipped, would break nicely. No one would find me because told no one where going. No mobile signal. Later stumbled on some path then on a farm where they directed to right path. To car in dark.
Lessons:
1. if no more marks, don't play smart but immediately back and maybe wait someone passes
2. enough hours reserve before night
3. map and detailed description. If description too "poetic", dig another source.
4. don't play cowboy and at latest from path call where you are and going.
Reasons: "too smart", inexperience, inability to admit got lost.
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