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Covid-19, Ukraine

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lino30. 11. 2020 17:34:22

Parenzo, you've vividly described the average Slovenian mentality. (Important to be against it, even if I don't know why!) nasmeh
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aleš k30. 11. 2020 18:26:18
There have always been viruses, various diseases, wars,.. and schools were open, movement wasn't restricted,... Let someone argue why this flu is so different (and not about numbers, because they are negligible compared to other diseases).
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aleš k30. 11. 2020 19:54:29
Maybe now you'll understand what I want to say.
People are supposed to be highly intelligent and developed beings. Just like wars, hunger, torture etc., it's unacceptable for most. Probably we agree here. But for me these "measures" are also unacceptable, because I don't know what they actually serve. Do you understand now?
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aleš k30. 11. 2020 20:09:43
Obviously I'm from another planet.
Good luck
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zokipoki30. 11. 2020 21:57:08
You're not from another planet Aleš, just cornered like practically all of us. We have to be understanding and as realistic as possible. Another smart aleck huh? nasmeh No problem. I think it's great that we can exchange opinions, even senseless ones, because it makes us human and in the end we all share the same fate. Everyone has their own story and reasons and everyone cracks sometimes. We also share a heavy history and burden that we carry individually and together. My view on covid is that it's a newer variant of the virus that can be fatal to the host under the right conditions. To me it seems simple, but I'm no expert. A lot is said that the measures will push many to the edge of survival. I don't know about others, I've been on the edge for years and who cares? Constant proving that I'm worthy of the job that allows me to get through the months. And I'm not the only one. Many have already fallen over the edge and no one knew. nasmeh
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Janez5230. 11. 2020 23:13:42
The benefit of the debate on this forum is that we can ease our souls a bit. The truth about covid-19 measures is a bit different for everyone. We could probably quickly agree on how much 1+1 is. But about covid measures it's a bit different. For someone around 35 who lost income due to covid measures, the measures are nonsensical and unacceptable. Yeah, at 35, if you get covid, it's probably flu in most cases.
For me though reality (truth) is a bit different. I'm retired so income is secured. Approaching 70 though and aware that my immune system due to past illnesses is already quite weakened. So it's harder for me to watch on walks when people don't respect the measures.
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redbull1. 12. 2020 04:52:32
You wrote everything fine, but when an effective vaccine comes I don't know. Were you there at the invention? I hope it won't end up available in 2024 and some still living in the coalition's fairy tale. I really hope I'm wrong.
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parenzo1. 12. 2020 08:11:42
The problem is there IS NOT enough medical staff, those who are there are exhausted, burned out, working 24/7. But that doesn't interest you selfish monkeys when you say: let's loosen everything, but increase the number of doctors. How? Copy/Paste?
Plastering, mixing mortar, laying tiles, you can learn in a week, for a doctor it takes 10 years!

It's proven that more than 20% of those who get over this "flu" without or with mild symptoms have very serious consequences. So youth, don't puff up, "nothing can happen to me because I'm young..."

Vaccine will come and soon. But I believe covid measures have hit the hardest the boozers, village braggarts and boasters who now can't puff up in the local tavern and lost the stage for bragging. That hurts...
Sniff, sniff..
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jax1. 12. 2020 08:41:42
Ugh, parenzo. This in arrogance almost reaches the holy trinity Janša-Kacin-Hojs ...
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parenzo1. 12. 2020 09:04:58
@jax, yeah, truth is quite a delicate matter.

Because of it most see you as honest, sober, objective, some see you because of it as rude, arrogant, hostile.., or they even get paranoia and compare you to this or that.
Well, it's not from today...some ended up on the cross, pyre because of it...

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zokipoki1. 12. 2020 09:08:44
Hahahaha parenzo! For a doctor it takes 10 years, for an ordinary worker a week! Hahahaha you missed a bit, turn it around while you can velik nasmeh
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ppegan1. 12. 2020 09:32:23
Until now I've held back from chiming in, but I can't anymore. I don't know if everyone's fed up or at least most. Don't you really see how harmful these measures are for the majority of the population?? Can you be so blind? What got me most was Primož's comment that the economy will survive. Yeah, sure it will, but to what extent. Ask Ana Roš and some other entrepreneur/SP a bit how they find the measures and how they feel because they had to lay off all employees due to government measures. Put yourselves in the shoes of those who lost everything due to measures and don't know how they'll survive, how they'll feed the kids. About 50 die per day from covid, but thousands are left without jobs. How will they survive, apparently no one cares. Does that really seem ok to you? I believe those who are provided for and have secure jobs don't deal with it and see nothing wrong in these measures. You can be blind, but don't be dumb.
Maybe some of you saw the post of a mom of two kids on FB saying she simply sees no way out anymore and doesn't want such a life despite two kids. She'd rather die from covid than live, because such life isn't worth living. Both with partner lost jobs due to government measures, now don't know how to survive, how to feed the kids, how to pay bills that pile up despite measures. And this surely isn't an isolated case, people are depressed, down, because they pay for something they're not guilty of, no one helps them. Does that seem normal to you? Not even talking about holidays ahead when people will be even more depressed.
Don't get me wrong, I support certain measures like wearing masks where needed (not outdoors or in mountains for sure), and not socializing and keeping distance, because I know what they want to achieve and that health system won't hold a larger influx of sick. I understand and comply. But everything to a certain extent.
Majority screwed because of minority. That's not right and shouldn't be. Elderly could be protected in other ways. And don't crucify me now again because I wrote what I did. My grandma at 86 broke her hip in March this year and didn't get covid, but still died because of it. From March to June she was in hospital without personal contact with us, so she was alone all days, contacts only by phone. When they saw she became apathetic and unresponsive due to loneliness, they sent her home. Actually sent her home to die, as three months of solitude left her severe, mostly irreversible consequences. She had no will to live anymore, which due to illogical government measures is happening right now to many old and young. My grandma passed end of July, I have no other grandparents. Even "well-intentioned" measures meant for general good can be fatal for some. Just for thought.
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zokipoki1. 12. 2020 09:35:25
Good ppegan, and what would you do to make it different?
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jax1. 12. 2020 09:53:50
ppegan, I strongly agree. In fact the claim that the economy "will hold" is purely identical to the claim that health care "will hold". But no one dares to say that anyway.
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jax1. 12. 2020 09:54:54
Aha, parenzo, not a single claim in your post is truth in the proper sense of the word. All are generalized stereotypes (boozers and village braggarts? Surely.).
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aleš k1. 12. 2020 10:17:05
@ Zoran

Thanks for reminding mevelik nasmeh.

Stay healthy, and I hope for some hike soonmežikanje
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zokipoki1. 12. 2020 10:19:53
We have to admit that what ppegan wrote was happening even before the measures. Let someone tell me why an economy like this should even exist? The economy as it is has deprived billions worldwide of bread and dignity! Many have been robbed of everything! The fall is inevitable, sadly it hurts me too, but that's another topic. You can keep driving the old normalcy of virtual reality and in your abundance that you gather via the capitalist model, forget all those who will croak for your satisfaction.
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ppegan1. 12. 2020 10:20:26
Definitely wouldn't lock us in municipalities and leave the elderly without contacts - we are social beings after all. Some tolerate loneliness better than others, that's how it is. My old grandma didn't handle it well and that's why she's dead. I'm not an expert, nor is it my field, but I'd certainly study all options and choose the least harmful for everyone. In the government there are people employed just for this, experts, but they don't understand anything or wander in the dark. And given they had half a year to prepare for the new wave, but did nothing - does that seem OK to you too?
@zokipoki, does it seem different to you that these measures work? They actually don't work and now they don't know what to do. Anyway, we're all to blame: disobedient citizens, frugal Gorenjci, people who still socialize, who protest in cars... in short everyone, except those in power. Worst is that we actually believe we're really all to blame. Well, you believe.
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dprapr1. 12. 2020 10:26:41
"Elderly could be protected in other ways."
We hear this all the time, but no one offers a solution to the problem. On one hand we note it's not good they're in nursing homes and hospitals without visits, on the other you want to isolate them even more from the rest of the population. Will you lock the staff working with them together with them, or how do you imagine it? What about elderly living with young? Lock them in the basement so "business" can continue?
I know it's hard now for many, especially those without jobs. But this reminds me of the times when smoking was banned in enclosed spaces. How everyone whined they'd go bankrupt. Yeah right, there were even more afterwards and many nice outdoor areas were set up then. They raised coffee prices by about 5x. And everything else too. Don't worry, they'll make it up now too.
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zokipoki1. 12. 2020 10:32:28
Ppegan, on installments and in loneliness people die since forever and yes, that's not right.

@Aleš
I agree velik nasmeh
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