|
| andi22. 12. 2020 11:57:56 |
Maybe it's hard to accept, so I'll write it again. Measures probably won't help because they're poorly effective. The virus is among us, in a much wider form than we can imagine. The similar situation in Italy calmed down in spring only after herd immunity and deaths. As we've said many times - seemingly perfect protection, yet serious infections among workers of certain professions. Which the main ruler of course called impossible You can't get rid of the invisible enemy. Let's keep a sober head and stick well to those measures that are sound common sense - similar to how we'd be careful in flu season. The survey third of people who don't follow measures won't change the situation much more, even if from today. For the public and us on the forum, it's very useful if we can pour all the anger of the world on it. Eating, using the toilet, drinking coffee or tea and exchanging a few friendly words with fellow humans we can't stop, otherwise only a jump out the window remains. All the best!
| (+6) |  | |
|
|
|
|
| ppegan2. 12. 2020 12:31:18 |
@zippo and andi, I really applaud you, written as if I did it myself  Most important is that in this fucking situation we don't forget to be human, to help each other if we can, not that man is a wolf to man, as I often feel.
@Marjan, it seemed so to me too, but they raised me well at home
@dragon, apology accepted
| (+3) | | |
|
|
|
|
| parenzo2. 12. 2020 12:36:10 |
Measures to contain the epidemic are not good or bad, but only mild or strict.
Their success depends only on compliance with the measures.
Similar to the relation: compliance with traffic rules and number of accidents.
| (+12) | | |
|
|
|
|
| VanSims2. 12. 2020 13:34:23 |
In Italy measures succeeded because they couldn't stick their nose out without permission. What herd immunity! Swedes tried that for a while and realized it doesn't work. By the way, they also have better situation because otherwise mild measures are better respected.
How did Belgium and Czechia manage from incidence 1300 to 300 or 500? Yes, they respected measures. Even somewhat milder than us. How Italians despite milder measures already have better epidemiological picture? Because they respect measures. I was there just before second lockdown. You don't see a person without mask.
So I agree with @parenzom, everything depends on respecting measures. OK some are really unnecessary (municipalities) but better one unnecessary more than necessary too few. We have similar or even stricter measures than rest of Europe. Where is the cause then? Only in ourselves and incompetent control authorities.
We're digging a deeper hole for ourselves with every day of unnecessary prolongation of epidemic. More economic damage, more unhappy people, more poor, unemployed,...
And yes, similar to traffic regulations. That's why we have draconian fines for speeding here, while Austrians have much smaller ones but greater safety.
| (+10) | | |
|
|
|
|
| jax2. 12. 2020 13:43:47 |
| (+7) | | |
|
|
|
|
| MitjaBelak2. 12. 2020 15:01:15 |
For a little laugh.
Today already an article https://www.rtvslo.si/zdravje/novi-koronavirus/prva-potrjena-okuzba-pri-domaci-zivali-v-sloveniji/544276
Comparison with human is just a coincidence. or not!
Cage for one ferret should be at least 80 x 60 x 60 cm, of course assuming little ferret spends enough time outside cage too. Cage can be smaller only if animal uses it exclusively for sleeping. Best is if we can allocate a room for living and playing instead of cage. Spaces where ferrets are freely released must be specially prepared and protected for that or we must keep animals under supervision all the time. Ferrets are extremely curious and sooner or later they will be tempted by things they shouldn't. Agility and intelligence just help them. Ferrets can be housed in outdoor cages too, properly protected from weather and other animals.
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| dprapr2. 12. 2020 16:34:49 |
VanSims, you wrote your findings well. Already 3x, and probably it will need a few more times for some to get it. Really hard to find other reasons for unsuccessful fight against virus.
Surprised that some here who supposedly work in healthcare (?), spout nonsense.
| (+7) | | |
|
|
|
|
| felix2. 12. 2020 16:41:18 |
Zippo, I agree with you. I follow the measures myself, but has anyone professionally determined which ones work? Now the "expert" team deals with survey and that should be decisive? I see some on this forum cling to the survey that's decisive. Sick.
| (+7) | | |
|
|
|
|
| zokipoki2. 12. 2020 16:52:15 |
VanSims' writing is close to me too. To get sound from accordion, you need to stretch bellows.
| (+6) | | |
|
|
|
|
| jax2. 12. 2020 17:56:44 |
| (+8) | | |
|
|
|
|
| fpetel12. 12. 2020 18:25:55 |
Not even remotely worse than others.
The problem is nursing homes - the number of sick people increases so fast there.
Given that it's healthcare workers employed there, that it's planned and directed from somewhere. Mine goes on Friday for a 5-year check-up, because of the job - right now. Why are shops closed?
So politics and that deep state - conspiracy.
| (+6) | | |
|
|
|
|
| andi22. 12. 2020 19:11:47 |
Yes, Slovenes are by far the worst nation when it comes to following measures (just like those ugly Italians themselves were guilty for very high mortality due to the stronger virus variant in spring - cc! And how the same Italians, Swiss and Swedes can now boast - no, not the milder variant of the same virus, they are such unique ones, and only in those weeks when stats support them). Also, yes, when you see (no need to spy), how the virus breaks through hazmat suits and destroys whole populations of incredibly dedicated people (not one or two, talking about 100 people), then you know that supposedly one works in healthcare. And yes, when we divide into two groups - those who haven't had the virus yet and naturally trust measures (correct!) and those who got sick ourselves despite rigorous following of measures (and saw live what the virus does to all our close ones who followed measures strictly too) and thus (justifiably!) the worm of doubt gnaws us. Yeah, I'll be smart from the couch then. Measures are moderately strict. And yes, measures are relatively poorly effective. When the virus finally rips through the population once (similar to how it shredded Italy in spring), we can somewhat breathe easy. Until next debate - vaccination. That one, Moderna.
| (+6) | | |
|
|
|
|
| NeprijetnaResnica2. 12. 2020 19:59:17 |
In science it's like that. Theory holds until it hits a counterexample. Let's look at the "hypothesis" that COVID-19 mortality in SLO is people's fault because they don't follow measures. The hypothesis would need to be broken down into basic premises, but it makes no sense since the negation of the statement has already been found (see previous debate). Negation is also in the fact that most infected are among healthcare staff and nursing homes, where measures are the most rigorous or that there is obviously the dominant infection vector. In the period 10.-17.11. among infected there were 700 persons among healthcare staff, 1000 in nursing homes, 800 among other retirees and 450 among all other residents combined (employed, unemployed, students). Source: https://twitter.com/vladaRS/status/1329009470811369475/photo/1. The conclusion that offers itself is interesting: spread of infections and mortality is highest where measures are followed the most. It can be argued that this part of the population has the most contact with the virus, yet according to the numbers it is one of the biggest virus reservoirs. Anyway, most importantly, measures and this debate fundamentally miss the point and lead away from the essence. In the background is everything else, e.g. among other "jobs" also showing public health as incompetent (argument of high mortality) and using that as argument for privatization of healthcare. Nursing homes are just a medium to achieve the goal. On that "economy will recover" here's this: 2008 was a much smaller economic crisis than now, the consequence was almost the breakup of the EU. Experience from that period does not promise anything good for the future and the statement that the economy is unimportant is cold arrogance, the argument about deaths is naked populism. In summary: in the background is theft. Slovenia is losing the war and not because of the virus...
| (+12) | | |
|
|
|
|
| dragon2. 12. 2020 22:12:07 |
Lady Unpleasant Truth registered today just to enlighten us and show us the unpleasant truth. I wouldn't be surprised if behind this post stands some Ladislav Troha
| (+4) | | |
|
|
|
|
| piotr2. 12. 2020 22:46:50 |
And not only that, lady Unpleasant Truth also reveals to us the background-theft.
Maybe this virus wasn't invented by the ugly uncles from the background either...
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| andi23. 12. 2020 07:56:47 |
The processes and effectiveness of protection are checked daily and weekly by a commission specially established for this. Compliance is monitored daily by another working commission. There won't be independent verification for a long time. The data and equipment used don't differ much from Italy and their healthcare workers in spring. Probably the worse epidemiology in Slovenia is due to greater virulence of the corona virus, about which we know too little. Once it breaks in, it's basically like running through a minefield. Someone explodes, another doesn't. And (except on the forum, justified by past experiences) - we don't hide behind anonymity, as it's easy to accuse us offhand. If anyone wants, let them write, you're welcome to inspect and live stories. Regards
| (+4) | | |
|
|
|
|
| andi23. 12. 2020 08:32:03 |
I completely agree with that. But despite top measures (if available), you have to consider that we are living beings at work. In 12h you have to go to the toilet, drink and eat something and occasionally sit for rest. And ideas, equipment, solutions for this strange situation - are the same everywhere in the world. No other ideas right now. So let's follow them, as much energy and will as we have left. It's very hard for all of us and it will be. Regards
| (+6) | | |
|
|
|
|
| VanSims3. 12. 2020 13:07:08 |
Why would the virus be more virulent in Slovenia than elsewhere?
Since I'm logged in, I'm reporting that winter joys have started in our yard, more kids than days ago when they were just kicking soccer and playing in the sandbox, now 20-30 are sledding on one small hill. Some adult still has a mask, no kid does.
Also @jaxu: that's just the degenerate EU top, it could be anywhere the EU seat is. Apparently Strasbourg and Milan were candidates after the war too, but dropped, first due to French-German dispute over Alsace, second due to too great distance from then mostly northern-European members when transport wasn't as developed as today.
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| zokipoki3. 12. 2020 14:05:14 |
My view of recommended measures.
First, let's clarify that I have no idea if I've already had the infection or not.
Partner works at Hofer. Practically 7 hours under mask, physical work except when at checkout. Wears gloves and disinfects herself and surroundings 50x per shift with surfaces. When at checkout, plexiglass and mask (washable) "protect" her. When stocking shelves, mask and distance as much as there is. A month ago she stopped staying in common areas during breaks, but visiting common areas is unavoidable. So far in the past three weeks four colleagues infected with fever. Actually expecting symptoms, but maybe not. As much as we've discussed, maybe we've already recovered, maybe we will, maybe simple measures can avoid the virus, which wouldn't be strange. Of course you can get infected 1,2,3 anywhere else. The difference between partner and infected colleagues is mainly that Tina didn't socialize with them, as they are opposite shift, but still had minor contacts. I think the virus is more transmissible if heads are close together for minutes, even with protection, virus finds way to mucosa.
That's how I see the situation now. Hope there's some truth in it and I don't get sick yet. Stay healthy you too!
| (+8) | | |
|
|
|
|
| andi23. 12. 2020 14:55:12 |
Nicely written, Zoran. Simon - regardless of Slo, I say - probably in Slo and in some environments around the world a virus variant is circulating that has stronger ability to penetrate human body and cause severe symptoms. That's why some nation easily beats chest with pride. If north from Jesenice to Nordkapp all ideal, south pure catastrophe, we'd more easily believe point is exclusively in people. But no, because virus doesn't know national habits. But it knows well hidden entries into smaller social networks from which it then spreads like fire across the country. As you wrote otherwise - only extreme solution is lock each person in house and wait two months. Well, how many beaten family members, dead single elderly, depressive and alcoholic suicides there will be, that's another statistic.
| (+2) | | |
|
|
|
You must log in to post a comment:
If you do not yet have a username, you must first
register.