Cyclists in the mountains
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| bostjanp8. 07. 2012 20:38:10 |
For info to all cyclists riding to mountain tops meant for hikers/mountaineers, read article 19 here http://www.uradni-list.si/1/objava.jsp?urlid=200761&stevilka=3298
It's not cool when you get to the top and wanna sign the logbook for GRS rescue case and take the stamp, but can't cuz of bikes around the box. Don't even talk about rest at the top... there is none. Go ride on paths made for that.
Regards
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| VanSims8. 07. 2012 22:11:24 |
You remove the bicycles and take the stamp or sign. What's the problem? And if they bother you on hiking trails, you just don't step aside. What's the problem here? That he'll crash into you? He'll hurt worse, don't worry! You can tease him a bit and step aside at the last moment or something...  Since riding is forbidden he's guilty for any accident anyway.
Yeah, and even if those cyclists knew about that 19th article. Fine is at least 3,500 up to 20,000 EUR but they know well no one will call police up there. So best to ignore them. You don't have to step aside either. You can mess with him a bit... 
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| tol9. 07. 2012 07:21:51 |
Where did you get the data on the fine amount from?
For now fines are more symbolic.
@bostjanp
A kind word opens every door. Probably those bikes had owners somewhere around the peaks?
I think there's enough space on the paths for both hikers and cyclists. Unless we bash our heads against the wall?
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| Lothar9. 07. 2012 08:16:36 |
Cyclists don't bother me and never have. But various "hotheads" bother me, who ride motocross bikes on forest mountain paths (mainly talking about Karavanke and Pohorje, where the terrain is most suitable for these adrenaline addicts). Goodbye peace, fresh air and animal watching. And some like to ride off the marked paths... don't get me started. 
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| Janez Seliškar9. 07. 2012 08:25:34 |
Before the discussion heats up, it'd be smart to check the website of the Touring Cyclism Commission at PZS:
http://ktk.pzs.si/
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| zippo9. 07. 2012 09:36:24 |
bostjanp, which peak had so many with bikes?
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| VanSims9. 07. 2012 10:35:39 |
@Tol: in the code in the link bostjanp shared, at the bottom among penalties it says that's the fine for violation against article 19.
@Lothar: I saw that too in the Dolomites on the South Tyrol (practically Austrian) side. Some guy was ripping on a hiking trail in the national park area with a motorbike.
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| bostjanp9. 07. 2012 19:51:22 |
@zippo: Ledinski vrh
I'm wondering what it'd be like if we walked on paths strictly for mountain bikers? Everyone knows what you'd get. Some order and coexistence must exist, like it's arranged abroad. If these are individual cases not members of PZS mountain bike section, nothing will stick to them anyway.
Paragliders could fly through TNP in great conditions too, but they don't because besides high fine they lose license; flying through TNP with paragliders is forbidden.
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| anze r10. 07. 2012 17:37:45 |
Now I know why the world is going to hell.
Boštjan and similar, is there anything in this world that doesn't bother you?
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| GregorC10. 07. 2012 19:58:48 |
bostjan, what about when you can't sign because of poles, backpacks, clothes and other hikers' stuff. Here's an example from Velika Planina few weeks ago. Simply couldn't see the panorama board because a group of hikers was posing for photo standing ON the board!
And regarding disturbing rest and peace, cyclists aren't the biggest problem. Rather "hikers" who love to flood the summit with strong drinks.
A bit of tolerance won't hurt.
LP Gregor
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| julius10. 07. 2012 20:50:09 |
Bikers assemble and rush to the "gore-ljudje" website. There you can check the new map of Eastern and Western Karawanks with all permitted and agreed bike paths marked.
How cruel the world is can be seen from a quick glance at the maps. The devil is that the paths you love debating about are meant exclusively for descendants of the 17th infantry. All that's left is to hoist your gold-worthy bikes on shoulders and avoid violations that way.
If you stick to regulations and ride on paths meant for you, all further debates unnecessary and everyone will respect you.
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| bostjanp11. 07. 2012 14:50:57 |
@anze: in the world these things are regulated and that's why there's such order in mountains and on pastures, where it's known who drinks and who pays. Here the situation is known to all, whoever engaged to establish some order, balance and coexistence, got all the worst for a human. Why? Because he wanted things to run normally, not abnormally and as befits anarchy. Why in Austria, Switzerland, Italy and Germany is it clear to all what's allowed and what's not? Because they are a cultured nation and respect each other. So Anže, don't say that people who want some order and coexistence are to blame for the current situation here. As long as the nation goes to hills in town shoes and answers for nothing, it'll stay like now. You think current state is ok? (clear to anyone with 5dkg salt in head why it's like this here). I've been abroad many times and seen what order is and liked it. I dreamed we'd have at least 50% of that here... but not even a speck under nail.
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| VanSims11. 07. 2012 17:44:16 |
Bravo bostjanp! Totally agree. And exactly, whoever wants order here gets cursed, insulted,... while such order demanded abroad is completely normal. It shows not only in mountaineering and nature but also other life areas. That's why Slovenia is economically where it is!
E.g. when I talked about how dog issues in hills should be regulated - hit me!
Among countries with order I'd conditionally put Italy cuz there you experience all sorts too. Maybe not so often, but their piss-off-ness is even worse. You don't know if worse when someone deliberately does sth to mess environment or boost ego or cuz he doesn't care or thinks it's totally normal.
But one thing true: everyone must stand up for himself and not wait for others' mercy. People respect you only when confident and can pull for yourself. Act confidently re dogs, cyclists, unfriendly hut keepers, no receipts... All these exploit lack of confidence.
Abroad order cuz people confident. Ride bike in Austria where not allowed or let dog on someone,... don't recommend the little-slovenian 'mind your own' response after sharp reaction of victim!
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| urbancek11. 07. 2012 18:47:37 |
bostjanp, bravo!
Just the fact that in this country of tycoons and other dishonest people they don't immediately lock them up for long says it all about this country... Waste of words, ashamed of such country... Of order that should be in it we can only dream... It will never be, so we're millions years behind the countries you listed in mindset, order-loving, honesty, values...
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| bostjanp11. 07. 2012 19:51:00 |
Finally two who know "what time it is". Hats off. More like that, and it'll slowly get better, right.
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| urbancek11. 07. 2012 20:18:39 |
The majority always wins and prevails. That's how it is and always has been!
This majority can be dishonest, without values and other listed human qualities, but it's still the majority -> and then the state is like that majority too... Unfortunately...
And we've come to this, that current Slovenia is like that... Well or overly well-situated people at the top of the state and big companies without a shred of social intelligence and without developed basic human values, which they should have acquired through normal upbringing, which obviously wasn't... Now some kind of "octopus" and a vicious circle... And we're spinning in it, everyone manage as they know and can...
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| gmirko11. 07. 2012 20:32:55 |
Just a thought, whether bikes or the merry group of sky-shouting hikers cutting dry salami on the stamp box....
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| julius11. 07. 2012 20:43:14 |
Gmirko, come on, tell us what you have against dry salami. All our ancestors carried it to the mountains, plus lots of other interesting and above all edible stuff one way or another.
With dry salami you survive a crisis, a mountain bike is completely inedible. Short, on it you'd break your teeth right at the start, on dry salami yum yum no.
I recommend rethinking and from the survival side.
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| gmirko11. 07. 2012 21:14:30 |
Nothing against salami, just can't get to the stamp the same if the box is parked..
I wanted to say that neither cyclists, nor kite flyers nor paragliders bother me, but there are exceptions in all that throw bad light on everyone.
And what bothers me a cyclist puffing up the hill..
more bothered by "hikers" that I hear hundreds of meters away..
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| GregorC12. 07. 2012 10:53:49 |
In our mountains there are still quite a few other things much more annoying than mountain cyclists. If we listened a bit and talked to some, we'd see we think the same. We all agree that order needs to be made, but not like we did it here. But in Slovenia that's how it's done, that's why we're where we are. Unfortunately.
Before we ban mountain biking here (which such legislation would do), better tackle real problems like calming and reducing motorized traffic in alpine valleys, mass mountain visiting, sewage treatment...
And something else I find interesting. No one chases off-trail hiking, which we all love to practice, even though everywhere it says to stick to marked and maintained paths.
Anyway, as long as mountain cyclists are equated with motorized vehicles here, there's no point preaching. Fact is PZS leadership and bill proposers don't even know what mountain biking is. And that despite PZS having a Touring Cycling Commission, which PZS leadership smoothly ignores.
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| zippo12. 07. 2012 11:20:01 |
Fact is, due to lack of knowledge most don't even know what to imagine under "mountain biking".
- Is it all who ride mountain bikes?
- Those puffing up asphalt to Rašica or Katarina?
- Those pedaling on gravel road to Blato or Vogar?
- Maybe heroes going up mulatiera to Komna?
- What about those taking cable car to Krvavec and just descending on hiking trail?
Probably more variations, unfortunately negative campaign sometimes causes a bunch of boozed hikers who after heroic ascent to Triglav in Vrata turn a keg or two of beer, to at least verbally if not physically attack a cyclist who peacefully rode to Aljažev dom.
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