Cyclists in the mountains
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| cebelca9. 02. 2014 11:19:22 |
VanSims, well that really interests me, your reasons why you suddenly miraculously changed your mind. 
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| GregorC9. 02. 2014 12:38:58 |
The biggest obstacle is simply lack of knowledge of mountain biking. Meaning fear of the unknown or something new. Just riding a mountain bike isn't mountain biking yet.
Slovenes are generally known for accepting novelties harder and first seeing all the worst in everything. Although mountain biking isn't some new thing at all.
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| GregorC9. 02. 2014 16:38:24 |
A few questions for those who are so against.
1. Where do you get the idea that we want to force riding everywhere without restrictions?
2. Have you even read the existing law and the proposal of new ZON law?
3. Why do you label advocates who try to present the matter as arrogant, because they simply disagree with you and present their view?
4. Where does the right of certain organizations to appropriate paths come from (except owners of course)?
5. Where are your proofs that cycling burdens paths more than hiking? Especially comparing massiveness.
6. Why do different ones bother you?
7. Have you even read the recommendations for mountain bikers, which 99% of cyclists follow?
8. Why am I more worthy somewhere in the hills if I climb on foot, even if my car is parked just 2 turns below the goal, than if I go up by bike, although I started from the valley?
9. Why is there more waste and mess where there are practically no cyclists and won't be? (But I think in ours there's not much littering!)
10. Why is walking off-path not problematic, although everywhere they warn to walk on paths and not leave them?
11. Why where there are many paths to a certain goal is it so hard to leave one to cyclists?
12. And finally, do you even know the issue, because up here very few of you know what it's actually about. At least judging by what was read.
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| mmuz9. 02. 2014 16:46:13 |
@GregorC: don't bother. Maybe you didn't notice that some in this debate smoothly ignore uncomfortable questions and facts unfavorable to their stance.
Leave the hiking trails in peace yourself.
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| cebelca9. 02. 2014 17:08:23 |
I agree.
Still, I count on people's common sense. After all these posts (thanks everyone for the patience in explaining and for the really large number of quality contributions!) those who are even slightly interested in this issue will better understand what is true and what is not.
And the decision FOR or AGAINST will thus not be based solely on unverified facts that are so persistently spread about mountain bikers.
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| VanSims9. 02. 2014 17:12:18 |
Gladly GregorC I'll answer some under the condition that I won't be hit again with a barrage of disqualifications from some users.
Ad. 3. Not all, but some in this thread certainly deserve that predicate. Maybe even a fifth column trying to discredit you.
Ad. 4. Hmmm. That's like asking where DARS or DRSC get the right to appropriate roads. They are just custodians and legally authorized for their planning, construction and development. Same with hiking trails, only PZS is in a similar role here. Law is like that. It's not said it can't be changed and proposals and debate (cultural of course) are welcome. Until then it's like that.
Ad. 5. I agree here, probably not.
Ad. 6. People are bothered by different ones because they are something they can't, don't know how or don't dare to be.
Ad. 7. No, I admit, I'm not. In general how many people follow recommendations... less than laws for sure. If there's a limit on the road maybe half the drivers follow it, if it's recommended speed the number is already in infinitesimal quantities
Ad. 8. You wonder about pedestrians, I as a pedestrian about those who drive right up to the hut and who would drive to Aljaž Tower if possible. See, how they bombarded me at Gospodična for that. Really, why is such a person worth more e.g. in the hut?
Ad. 9. Probably because as you noted there are fewer of you than hikers. But probably the percentage (sorry for the term) of jerks among you is the same as among us hikers.
Ad. 10. I wonder that too. Probably because with us if something happens off official trails you'll still get rescue, transport, treatment costs reimbursed in case of accident... because it's still free for all. Not abroad. That decides the insurance where you're insured, which will say your standard insurance doesn't cover that. But there's probably some more expensive for off-trail.
Ad. 11. I have nothing against it. That's practice abroad. That's exactly what I advocated when I said I saw trails marked separately for pedestrians separately for cyclists abroad and some mocked that.
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| FSkok9. 02. 2014 19:38:23 |
Do you think that KTK or its chairman is a legitimate representative of cyclists in this matter?
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| BorisM9. 02. 2014 19:42:02 |
Hey buddy, now you'd like to slip something under me, it won't work!
If he's KTK chairman, then he represents KTK. I already told you, I'm not in PD, PZS nor in KTK.
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| GregorC9. 02. 2014 19:48:22 |
FSkok absolutely yes!
VanSims basically you wrote what I already did in one of the upper posts. IGNORANCE and NON-ACCEPTANCE of novelties and unwillingness for talks and compromises. Simply by the system why, because it is like that.
THAT's it from me in this thread, because I simply don't feel like typing the same things anymore.
I'd rather cycle, there I meet better people. LP
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| FSkok9. 02. 2014 19:52:03 |
I'm not insinuating anything, I'm asking because I'm interested if KTK proposals "count" or not? BorisM, you yourself highlighted the chairman in one of the previous comments .
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| BorisM9. 02. 2014 19:55:14 |
As far as I know KTK advocates opening all trails, but they are not representatives of all cyclists.
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| VanSims9. 02. 2014 20:21:47 |
One really doesn't know what to do... With all your arrogance you've lost quite a few supporters.
Ok, you are really experts in your field, you know things, laws better... but you don't know how to play politics and lobbying. That's essential. You rather spit and disqualify everyone who wants to come towards you. That way you won't achieve anything! You propose one thing, your opponents another, the thing is in compromise. Otherwise you won't achieve anything!
And you're fragmented like hell: this one doesn't represent me, I'm not a member of that association, they don't represent all cyclists instead of joining together... you're like our minorities in Italy and Austria, that's why they achieve nothing.
In the end you'll really end up with biking banned everywhere. Then you'll have it! And I'm not offended at all - I simply don't care.
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| mmuz9. 02. 2014 20:30:03 |
@VanSims: one third of PZS members are mountain bikers - did you overlook that? Probably the largest umbrella organization, which cares damn little about those members.
You mention arrogance? I disagree, being argumentative and arrogance are not the same.
Arrogance is when someone without arguments says "it will be like that period". Arrogance is also when someone without arguments says "at first I was even sympathetic to you, but when you started disagreeing with me and even proving it with some facts, then no more - wouldn't you be quiet and not debate with me!"
But you have to admit it's at least a bit funny if you accuse a group that set "regulation and not prohibition" of activity as goal, that it's not willing to make compromises.
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| BorisM9. 02. 2014 20:34:50 |
And what did I write wrong? If the KTK chief represents KTK, he can't represent me, because I'm not in KTK. How we're organized, leave that to us. We just activated a couple of journalists, and Peršolj is already moaning around and spouting nonsense. And we didn't lose anyone, actually you activated us by squeezing us into the corner again. This time we won't be quiet anymore, enough is enough once! And things are unfolding, this time in a positive direction. What kind, you'll see, everything in due time.
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| BorisM9. 02. 2014 20:52:12 |
Mmuz, I've already posted that twice, and I strongly doubt you've taken the time to read it.
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| FSkok9. 02. 2014 21:00:25 |
As we can read, the following resolutions were adopted at the meeting of representatives of cyclists and tourism;
http://mtb.si/novice/1979-sklepi-srecanja-predstavnikov-kolesarjev-in-turizma.html
Nowhere is it stated how they arrived at these resolutions, were they voted on by the participants? Why am I asking this? Because KTK is listed among the participants under these resolutions, so one could easily form the opinion that KTK supports such resolutions, although obviously at least regarding the other point it doesn't!
http://www.pzs.si/vsebina.php?pid=141
Does this seem like some kind of misleading of the public to anyone else?
@BorisM; I still don't know who "you" are or who officially represents the cyclists.
Edit; while I was writing, @mmuz already posted the resolutions of the representatives of cyclists and tourism, thanks. Of course I read it (but not today)...
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| BorisM9. 02. 2014 21:11:26 |
Below you have written who was at the meeting, they represented us mountain cyclists. Jože Rovan represented only KTK, not all cyclists. And these are not KTK positions, but positions of us mountain cyclists. Who we are, you'll find out in good time.
I'm fed up with you, I'm going to an island in the middle of the Atlantic, where I can ride my bike on trails, and no one will die because of it. And there all but one trails are open to cyclists and hikers! Unless VanSims comes there, then no.
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| cebelca9. 02. 2014 21:12:09 |
FSkok, what do you want to say now? That the positions are invented?
Write to mtb.si or to one of the undersigned below and ask them if you're so curious how the voting went.
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| FSkok9. 02. 2014 21:21:13 |
Why attack instead of answer?
Did I write any untruth?
@cebelca, why are you twisting? Didn't I clearly ask in what way the positions were adopted. Of course I'm not claiming they are invented, because THEY ARE NOT!
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