Cyclists in the mountains
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| julius12. 07. 2012 14:51:24 |
Zippo,
can you tell us who the "mountain cyclists" are and where they can ride according to legislation?
Is it descent from Storžič to Mače, from Kredarica to the valley (nice and especially interesting video) or, say, as you say "pedaling" on marked paths in the new map of Eastern and Western Karawanks?
My curiosity really bugs me.
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| viharnik12. 07. 2012 17:27:10 |
The real answer of MTB cyclists will be known and given live soon. Just arrived after 8h and 750km from France-Lanslevillard.
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| zippo12. 07. 2012 18:11:15 |
@julius, just hinted at the problem and not preaching, isn't it clear?
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| GregorC12. 07. 2012 18:43:23 |
julius, one of the problems is also that quite a few already marked paths on various maps and in guidebooks have suddenly become illegal due to this legislation.
Mountain biking is a veeeeery broad term and unites quite a lot of different genres. And this is also one of the things that needs to be defined how and what. So we touring cyclists are on the black list and hated mainly due to downhillers and freeriders. And even among them most are aware that we are "guests" on mountain paths and that pedestrians have priority.
Of course among cyclists there is a small share of puffed-up and arrogant guys who throw bad light on the others. But such exist also among hikers.
And also this, it's not exactly some great comparison, but nevertheless. Someone said that bike is technical aid for ascent and descent and therefore doesn't belong on mountain paths. By this definition then neither poles, skis, snowshoes...
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| julius12. 07. 2012 21:50:14 |
GregorC!
Prešeren among other things also wrote the following words: "Valjhun zaman tam mrtvo išče lice..."
Why did I write this to you?
I have a really hefty cardboard box of mountaineering maps, both old and newest ones, but after thorough review I don't find in them the so-called mountain bike trails or dual-purpose paths.
From this it follows that if you don't have something, you can't lose it either. In short, if they were never marked as paths allowed for mountain biking, they couldn't become illegal.
If I'm wrong and if I don't have the right maps, please correct me.
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| viharnik12. 07. 2012 22:12:02 |
Julius, maps of mountain tours here among us are still not defined to this day, with rare exceptions of a few important alpine valleys (Vrata, Kot, Krma, Logarska dolina, Bohinj). Here among us not even in nature is indicated where one can ride and what is the average riding time. So in Austria, Switzerland and France they are quite ahead of us in this regard and complement natural assets for active tourists. What and when something will come out here among us in terms of mountain bike road network and rules, will be decided by the mountaineering association, guardians of TNP, parcel owners, hunters and also local residents and tourism workers.
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| GregorC13. 07. 2012 10:54:14 |
I have quite a few maps and maps. Both local cycling paths and also tourist maps of individual areas where cycling and hiking paths are marked. And they overlap in many places. There are also (mountain) cycling guides (I have some at home too). Many of these paths are also marked on the ground (verified) and I'm sure that for setting up signs and path markings they needed certain approvals.
True, many of these paths run on roads and paths that are not controversial, but there are individual sections and tours that have become practically illegal.
I have the habit that when I come somewhere for the first time, I like to stop at the local tourist info point or similar. Among other things I inquire about such matters and get some map or guide of the area. And I have already been warned that on certain, already marked paths lately various inspectors and others like to wait and chase cyclists.
Anyway, I comfort myself with the fact that the situation on the ground is not as critical as it sounds.
LP
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| tine.sl2. 03. 2013 08:33:57 |
Exactly the same problem as with holes I had in summer with mountain bike, when I just couldn't meet one hiker without him yelling at me.
Also from Golaka, even though we met on a 3 meter wide path that isn't even marked. Disproportionality of course. To some individuals we others are just in the way.
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| julius2. 03. 2013 17:14:37 |
tine.sl
I think you won't believe that the "law on driving in natural environment"
PROHIBITS
riding with bicycle, tricycle, mountain bike, not to mention vehicles on petroleum derivatives on all mountain paths and forest tracks.
But allows it on forest roads (attention: at the beginning of forest roads it says that driving on them is at own risk), and all other categorized roads.
Once again.
Watch where you ride and who you meet. Maybe the next guy will be aggressive, complaint according to law is not possible, because you are breaking the law.
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| BorisM2. 03. 2013 17:55:32 |
@ Julijus
Really, what have you mountaineers done so good for nature that it's allowed only for you to use it? Don't worry we cyclists know the legal regulation much better, since you keep throwing it in our face. Officially we shouldn't be allowed to ride even on cart tracks.
You can refer to the law, I have the right to ignore it, as long as I see helicopters delivering drinks to huts in TNP, I don't care at all what is allowed or not.
As for aggression. So far I haven't had any problems in the hills, neither with hikers nor with anyone else. And I hope it stays that way, there's enough space for everyone.
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| julius2. 03. 2013 18:10:10 |
BorisM
Really, what have you mountaineers done so well for nature that it's allowed only for you to use it?
For starters.
Nowhere did I write that it's "only for mountaineers" allowed to use anything. I only pointed out the violation of legislation.
Of course you have the right to ignore the law!
However- only until the state starts to enforce the legislation it has adopted in practice.
Until then good luck and god forbid you meet a stubborn pedestrian who will clearly assert his rights.
Also Mountain police will tighten control over driving in natural environment this year. If the state is in financial trouble, contribution from mountain bikers will be welcome.
When they fine you, your excuse about helicopter supply to TNP huts won't help at all.
In short- use your brain.
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| julius2. 03. 2013 18:19:32 |
BorisM
What do you say who made all the mountain paths?
Surely not cyclists!!
Mountaineers take care of mountain nature protection!!
Cyclists however...
If you want I can attach some pics on which good works of cyclists are shown.
It's true that some have mountain bikes whose value exceeds the price of a mid-range car, but when serious braking is needed, the result is the same as with low-cost ones (not flying, but crashing).
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| julius2. 03. 2013 19:07:48 |
BorisM
Don't bullshit.
Of more than 70000km of mountain trails very few really go along mule tracks. If you knew at least 10% of mountain trails, you wouldn't have written what you wrote.
Mule tracks are still in the Julian Alps as an exception, in other parts of Slovenia there are none.
That in the entire existence of KTK you went three times on "Kramp-turce" is damn little compared to what markacists do in one year.
That's hypocrisy and misleading in one word.
When founding KTK there was a lot of talk about education. The result is as follows,
with help of European funds you do "education", the number of those riding with you against the laws increases year by year.
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| tinky2. 03. 2013 19:18:15 |
More such signs in the mountains.
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| BorisM2. 03. 2013 19:21:22 |
Calm down a bit, I'm not in KTK.
Oh, first you throw at me that cyclists only destroy, when I show you we also help maintain trails, you accuse me of hypocrisy and misleading.
Anyway it's obvious you have no clue what a mountain bike is and where you can ride it, meaning ride it without damaging the terrain.
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| julius2. 03. 2013 19:45:49 |
BorisM
Interesting!
You're not in KTK, but you boast about their actions. All three reports are from their actions.!!!
Three actions in three years!!!!!
Don't mock PZS markacists who do 1000 X more work annually just on maintaining mountain trails.
You can claim I have no idea what a bike is and where to ride it. Your claim that riding doesn't damage terrain stands on such shaky ground as squealing car tires in Hollywood movies on quick starts on grass.
The claim matters, not facts.
tinky
local communities are responsible for installing signs. But unfortunately ostrich effect is present here.
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| Zebdi2. 03. 2013 19:51:30 |
Hehe, at mention of good work by markacists I involuntarily remember the steps they built uphill towards Mojstrovka. I assume of course that they didn't transplant that brush to ..erm...more suitable spot
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| BorisM2. 03. 2013 20:02:28 |
I gave you links to albums where I was there, those are photos I took. To go on a work action you don't need to be KTK member. There were four work actions, I wasn't at one, under KTK umbrella. There were also others where we helped hikers maintain trails.
If someone here is mocking, it's you, after work action markacists were always grateful and invited us to come again. Instead of praising that some cyclists try and help, you belittle our work. I don't say it's something big, but at least we showed will and that we care.
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| dprapr2. 03. 2013 20:14:48 |
What do you say who made all the mountain trails?
Surely not cyclists!!
Hikers care for mountain nature protection!!
@julius, the first and third sentence somehow don't go together for me. If it's former shepherd path, somehow ok - but when digging, cutting, drilling, installing iron starts... I think that's not exactly caring for mountain nature protection. Even less building such mountain huts that offer almost everything regardless of consequences.
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