Cyclists in the mountains
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| BorisM8. 10. 2013 12:34:20 |
I don't know what's interesting about it. It's full of untruths and various nonsense.
I am a mountain biker myself, I cycle a lot abroad too. I'm interested in how such "die-hard" hikers like Alenka don't even bother to find out about permissions for cycling on trails in other nearby countries. In fact, we have the most restrictive legislation by far.
Italy, allowed everywhere except where prohibited, and there are very few such areas, various national parks.
Austria, except in Carinthia no problems elsewhere, and even there things have started to move for the better.
Switzerland, most trails open to cyclists.
France, most trails open. Personally, I rode on Corsica, no prohibitions anywhere.
In her entire statement, I agree only that there are some cyclists among us who are really intolerant to others. Those bother me too and most other cyclists who are trying to regulate trail riding here as well. However, you can't put all cyclists in the same basket, those of us who are considerate usually retreat to less crowded trails, or go there at hours and days when we don't disturb other users. The consequence is that you often encounter exactly those intolerant ones.
Also, that we don't maintain trails is not true. We've already been on a few actions together with trail markers. Quite often during rides we remove fallen trees, as it's in our interest that the trail is more rideable next time. Probably with a bit of goodwill we could do much more.
For now, I have good experiences with hikers, both here and abroad. It's in our interest to coexist and as I see, also for most hikers. With a little tolerance from both sides, we can all have a good time regardless of equipment.
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| Keko8. 10. 2013 13:25:29 |
Mountain bikers generally don't bother me. There are irresponsible hikers who due to carelessness loosen rocks and thus endanger other hikers below them and similarly there are irresponsible cyclists who endanger everyone around. Both are unacceptable. So far I can say that no cyclist has endangered me, while I have been endangered by irresponsible hikers. There is enough space on mountain trails also for responsible mountain bikers, just like for anyone else. I myself am not among mountain bikers.
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| Loni8. 10. 2013 13:25:47 |
Much more than the post itself I like the comments under it.
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| GregorC8. 10. 2013 13:35:45 |
Actually, this opinion from the mentioned lady doesn't surprise me at all. She is very active and does respectable tours, especially since she practically starts all of them by bike from Vižmarje. But if you read her route descriptions, you can see that it is a very bitter person who practically sees bad things in everything and is very pessimistically inclined.
Thank God there are few such people and there are always fewer. Things are improving and there is always more cooperation between hikers and cyclists too. At least according to my experiences. I also agree with Keko. More often I've had problems as a hiker with a hiker than with a cyclist. And regardless of whether I was the cyclist or someone else.
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| alpin9. 10. 2013 10:49:27 |
To be frank, it bothers me too when I see someone carrying a bike to high mountains and I think he'll carry it half the descent too, meanwhile "tearing up" already eroded hiking paths and scaring hikers with his rampaging (where at all possible), maybe even physically injuring someone; I see no positives in that.
But I advocate that some paths be arranged for such needs since they have to be somewhere and that they basically separate and specify this kind, downhillers, touring cyclists and mountain bikers, so we'll know who we're even talking about. I personally have very bad experiences with downhillers, meeting them on hiking paths, communication with them.
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| tol9. 10. 2013 12:44:03 |
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| cebelca9. 10. 2013 12:50:27 |
Well, see Alpin, here we differ. You don't bother me actually, though I have to stop and dismount the bike because of you so you can calmly walk past me. 
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| BorisM9. 10. 2013 13:10:52 |
I'm seriously curious how many accidents were caused by mountain cyclists (with hikers)?
There is a difference between downhillers and mountain cyclists; downhillers usually take the cable car or car up the hill. Mountain cyclists ride their bike up to it, in the extreme case carry it.
There is also a big difference in downhill driving. Downhillers drive one path multiple times a day, so they know it better and the paths are consequently more loaded. Mountain cyclists usually ride one path more or less only once a year, consequently don't know the path so well and speeds are much lower already because they don't know what awaits behind the corner.
Downhillers are usually the younger generation too, their behavior and conduct we mountain cyclists don't approve of either. Personally, if I see someone behaving inappropriately or driving rough, I simply exclude him and don't go on a tour with him anymore.
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| korl9. 10. 2013 13:44:04 |
@BorisM: "I'm seriously curious how many accidents were caused by mountain cyclists (with hikers)?"
- apparently one said that almost one happened she heard of some similar cases too.
You just have to pose the question to people in such a way that you put the answer on their tongue and here's the quarrel. The lady who wrote the article aimed against cyclists succeeded more than well.
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| ugn9. 10. 2013 14:15:06 |
A few posts above alpin writes:
»To be frank, I'm also bothered when I see someone carrying a bike into the high mountains and I think he'll carry it half the way down too, along the way "ruining" already worn mountain paths and with his rampaging (where possible) scaring hikers, perhaps even physically injuring someone, I see no positive in that.«
With this he nicely explained how it goes: he saw a man carrying a bike up the hill. That's all that actually happened. All the rest he just imagined: that the man will carry the bike half the way down too (not clear why that could bother him), thought he'll ruin paths, scare hikers and physically injure someone. And that Alpin thought these things is now an argument against mountain cycling.
The entire campaign against cycling in the mountains is based on such a pattern.
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| viharnik9. 10. 2013 15:46:39 |
To high-alpine targets mostly only experienced mountain cyclists set off, who know how to ride to the valley and whose fitness doesn't fail them. Ethics and consideration for the surroundings probably fluctuates depending on the individual's personality traits like everywhere else. A completely different question is whether mountain bike riding is allowed on such paths at all, since the directive on mountain cycling in Slovenia is only being prepared and will enter into force only in a year or two. Also I as an MTB guy like to ride some trail, mountain path, but to descend right from rocky mountains is not my interest, there I prefer only as a hiker-mountaineer.
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| viharnik9. 10. 2013 17:58:17 |
He, he, Tulipan, where did you find that history?
Right at that time around 1970 the American Gary Fisher was the first to come up with the idea for a better and more durable mountain bike. He constructed it himself at first and tested the novelty on terrains right away. When the thing took off first with small production, mountain cyclists already organized the first races over rough and steep terrain, which were quite interesting back then. Gary later invented all kinds of bikes, for downhill, regular hardtail, fullsuspension, trekking bike, jump bikes... His masterpieces of the frame itself, which is the most important, surpassed practically all brands, even Cannondale. In recent years Gary is already old and has abandoned his long-term efforts. As a cyclist with a big soul he still likes to advise on novelties, his bikes now promoted under the Trek brand with the previous name Gary Fisher, which is the same. He once said that all those who pedal the bike, no matter where in the world they live, are all his great friends. Yeah, Garry is really a bike legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h19n-5qIp78
Another interesting link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiD8aBmYu_g
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| Zebdi9. 10. 2013 18:21:35 |
Opa, under the first full-suspension one it wasn't Gary Fisher who signed, but Robert Reisinger
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| viharnik9. 10. 2013 18:28:13 |
Gary really had only a differently mounted rear shock on the frame of the fork back then. That was around 1999-2000 front shocks, 2003 rear, if I'm not mistaken. Lp!
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| pohodni9. 10. 2013 18:36:17 |
Although I've already walked quite a bit in the mountains I've noticed very few cyclists in the high mountains so far. I think they are mostly not a disturbing factor for hikers, even less for the natural environment. It's different of course lower down where mountain roads go up. There are many more cyclists there, since they can pedal uphill too. Downhill of course everyone does their own way. Some on the road, those craving adrenaline across various paths, forest tracks, etc. As long as no one endangers me it doesn't bother me, but it's not always like that. On my home Pohorje as a pedestrian I've had quite a few dangerous encounters with cyclists who like to descend downhill also on marked paths. It's awkward that in the forest you see and hear him too late to safely step aside. Not to mention braking a speeding cyclist, which is almost impossible on a forest slope downhill. Nevertheless I have nothing against cyclists, since most are very correct towards pedestrians. I cycle myself too, but only on paved roads and forest paths.
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| viharnik9. 10. 2013 19:39:05 |
Tulipan, congratulations and bow to your ascent in 1971 by bike to Triglav!Back then I was still in the stable, since unfortunately I was only seven months old
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| JusAvgustin10. 10. 2013 08:29:49 |
I myself haven't met even one yet... They don't bother me, other things bother me more than cyclists.
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