Cyclists in the mountains
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| julius31. 01. 2014 20:13:13 |
Hey cycling gents, you want to be right by any means and at any cost. Unfortunately it doesn't work that simply, period.
Brutal facts!
Most hiking trails that PD "owns" run on private land. Same for forest roads.
And look to the future!
Since these lands are private property and owners regularly pay taxes to the state, which will rise with new laws, we care little about cyclists' brutal demands, same for pious dreams and fantasies of PZS president. If damage to our property by mountain bikers continues, we'll simply put up signs "PRIVATE PROPERTY - PASSAGE FORBIDDEN". You know them from neighboring much more democratic and free countries where private property rules.
Gentlemen, how would you react if we bring our livestock to your nice gardens in spring. You won't believe how much one cow eats a day and how much, excuse the term, shits.
In the end!
Tell what scenario you want and you'll get it. Choice is yours. Forest roads and some tracks, or war with owners. Don't expect state support. Lands are ours, taxes from state and cyclists to roads. And watch what it says at forest road start, "DRIVING AT OWN RISK". Even in accident on forest road insurance will show you fig, not to mention forest tracks and god forbid hiking trails.
That's the truth. You can spit on me as much, can't show other facts.
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| miri31. 01. 2014 20:31:39 |
@Julius, do you have so much land that you only walk on yours?
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| BorisM31. 01. 2014 20:40:21 |
Julius, go check legislation in neighboring countries, you have no clue. Italy, all open except where forbidden, and that's very little. Austria, most open, Carinthia had one of strictest laws but last year started opening big time. Switzerland, one of most bike-friendly countries, same France. For Moldova and Lithuania no way I'm checking, no idea how there.
And yes I agree, if you don't like close the trail, but close for all. And you don't go elsewhere. Luckily not all private property and abroad is close. See from my cycling, what I spend I pay taxes to Italians and Austrians, their money doesn't stink, Alenka should send you subsidies.
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| kabe31. 01. 2014 20:59:51 |
The easiest is to write regulations, laws from a "comfortable" office. Even easier is probably to put up a PRIVATE sign, right Mr. julius, and thus prevent access. But here a question arises for landowners: are your forests, meadows, clearings... so neat as they were 30, 50 years ago? Do you care for the balance in the ecosystem, or do you just beat your chests and boast where your land is? I think this is extremely selfish and outdated thinking!! We are hikers, mountaineers, alpinists (whatever you want), traversed quite a few mountains in Slo and EU, but such a macho attitude we haven't met anywhere. A guest, whatever kind he is, is welcome everywhere and you rarely meet a private sign, or THIS IS MINE! Mr. BorisM, excellent, constructive criticism!!!
OH, what about pathless terrain? And ultimately ski tourers, paragliders, kite flyers???
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| cebelca31. 01. 2014 21:39:32 |
@bdolmovi: "...those are cyclists who ride on marked paths, where it's not possible then straight across and thus destroy humus, make new paths on which hikers then walk too."
Most shortcuts are made by pedestrians, that's a fact. If I take as example just countless shortcuts e.g. on the path to Komno, to Kamniško sedlo, devastation on Kamniški vrh....on at least 80% of all those shortcuts, if not more, a cyclist with a bike has nothing to do, nor do we have any interest in using those shortcuts at all, so the question is who is the one destroying this sacred humus. And based on such generalizing and populist statements, public opinion is then formed and people who have never even seen a mountain biker in person take it as holy truth and spread it further.
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| julius31. 01. 2014 21:48:45 |
Gentlemen!
It's obvious that your view doesn't reach more than a meter in front of the handlebars. Tell us honestly what they have open so we can talk at all.
Tell that the above-mentioned countries, including Carinthia, have regulations that allow cycling, even mountain biking, exclusively on designated gravel roads and not everywhere as some here would like. There you don't accidentally see a mountain biker on mountain and hiking paths, like it's already customary here. Not on meadows and pastures either.
Here we have complete anarchy in this area. If I don't object to a hiking path going over my land, that doesn't mean I agree that, excuse the expression, lunatics on bikes or motorcycles rush along it and endanger our children as well as animals. On the other path the first ones open gates, the last "forget" to close them, and we chase after livestock.
BorisM
As for private property, just look carefully so some yodeler or whatever doesn't load them on your shoulders. Already right after the former border crossing Rateče every other side path has a prohibition sign. Same on the other side of Karavanke.
If you got proper info on subsidies, you'd learn that farmers in areas that appeal to you city folks for weekends and releasing tensions you experience from climbing get them so we can survive there at all. Why did I write "climbing"? Bikes that most who ride these paths have are devilishly expensive. Workers who still have jobs and a legion of unemployed can only dream of such bikes.
Guys, we're going in circles. Who will be first.
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| julius31. 01. 2014 21:54:58 |
cebelca
I was just struggling with writing when you wrote your opinion.
I would agree with it, IF I hadn't experienced encounters with cyclists where you can't even imagine, e.g. on top of Storžič. What the hell did they have to seek there? When I told them which law they violate, then I heard them. They told me everything they thought they had to tell me. There were also some strong words in between.
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| Zebdi31. 01. 2014 22:05:26 |
julius, but this generalizing based on two patients from Storžič is a bit unfair. It's like I labeled all farmers as asocial drunks based on one bad experience. And we both know that's far from the truth. You find rotten apples among hikers, cyclists, landowners, but that far from means that all are the same 
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| cebelca31. 01. 2014 22:11:00 |
Julius, up there they did the same as you, just that they had a bike with them. What's strange about that? And we all go to the mountains to enjoy and relax, on foot or by bike, I don't know why that's so hard to understand. The last thing we want is for someone we want nothing from, whom we don't endanger, to ruin our day by taking the right to teach us what's right and wrong. You think a cyclist has no business on Storžič, well some think differently. About legislation I wouldn't, because it's unrealistic and I hope people will finally realize it once.
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| BorisM31. 01. 2014 22:18:39 |
Julius sorry, in which year did you get stuck. It's exactly the opposite, I don't know where you get the info that everything abroad is closed. Closed is here, officially I can't ride even on a cart track between two fields. Abroad they make big money with it, on top we bring it to them, instead of bringing tourists to us. For Posočje it's a nice market niche that you'll take away from them with your selfish behavior. Then step in front of those unemployed youth for whom this is the only survival option. Tell them why there won't be rich Germans here. Just for info, weekly guided tour costs about 800€ per person. We're still rich enough to afford it!
I don't need it, honestly I feel much better in Italian and Austrian hills. And no one chases me, there it's allowed, even on the narrowest paths.
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| BorisM31. 01. 2014 23:09:44 |
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| julius31. 01. 2014 23:28:14 |
BorisM
You're selling a product that doesn't exist. In the attached http there's nothing concrete. No Austrian-Carinthian law, no map of bike paths.
In short, you're selling wet dreams.
About market niches for Posočje the "experts" have been talking for at least 50 years, but the locals there still notice nothing. On the contrary, year by year they live worse. Cyclists will come, cycle one day and leave. People living there will get nothing from it.
Big money will be pocketed by sellers of mountain bikes, equipment etc. Allegedly some bikes cost 20,000.00€ and more.
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| Frizz1. 02. 2014 00:05:43 |
julijus
Even a one-day visitor leaves some money. When Kanin was operating besides the ski pass, I also bought chocolate at the nearby gas station, then lunch at 12 in the restaurant and on the way home still Pizza in Kobarid. 1 day = min 60€ (without fuel). Someone from Germany would also have to sleep somewhere and eat even more http://www.hribi.net/slike/smile.gif would spend even more.
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| FSkok1. 02. 2014 04:11:52 |
Sorry, but I can't hold back;
Let's not mix touring cyclists with "downhillers", because from my own experience I know there are (at least) two sorts, namely the touring cyclist who also goes up under his own power and is usually (maybe because of that) much more considerate, and the "downhiller" who usually goes up "on the lift" and down BMX for everyone else...
So you don't think I'm just writing nonsense, this is one of the adventures on the markacists' work action;
When we were recently maintaining the trail in the Velika Planina area, despite the closed trail notice, a group of so-called downhillers "flew" down. Although they demanded we move aside, we refused them for their own safety. Besides calls for physical confrontation, we were subjected to words I won't mention to avoid admin deletion...
As for the fools who are supposed to ride or carry bikes to Storžič...., there are few of them so markacists don't need to worry about more work because of such (village) weirdos.
Franci Skok
PS the mentioned group turned around twice that day and pushed back  , (if that's downhill, I'm the next pope Francis, ha ha ha...)
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| BorisM1. 02. 2014 07:01:58 |
Julius, I don't know why you're so worried that someone else will earn something. Don't you sell the vegetables you grow? Or do you give them away? And since we're on the topic, I happily stop at a farm and get some cheese or butter. Try thinking a bit broader, not just how to chase someone. If you have a good product, that cyclist will return to your farm and buy something.
If you want to read the law, make the effort yourself, you have just as many keys as I do. You haven't provided anything concrete either, I haven't seen you point to any law yet.
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| tine.sl1. 02. 2014 08:00:53 |
Julius, it would be good if you too went across the border once to see what's happening there, to avoid your own limitations.
Your thinking won't change because of that, nor your writing. But maybe deep down you'll realize that you're just an ordinary ignoramus who likes to pontificate on everything. Go out into the world and look around a bit, and invite someone else along, because in our beautiful little country there are still a few who think the world was given to them by the party and God, but they don't dare cross the border and like Koreans at home they spout nonsense about places they don't dare go to.
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| GregorC1. 02. 2014 09:34:56 |
So much arguing on this topic across various forums, but once you're out in the field, except for really rare exceptions, no problems between cyclists and hikers. Everyone respects each other. That really fascinates me. Obviously fresh air does its thing and common sense prevails.
Regarding the mentioned bill, we'll just go to neighboring countries even more and diligently fill their coffers.
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| Daaam1. 02. 2014 09:59:22 |
"So much arguing on this topic across various forums, but once you're out in the field, except for really rare exceptions, no problems between cyclists and hikers."
With that GregorC said it all.. And unfortunately Slovenia will miss the train again, when we could empty the wallets of foreign tourists and worse, we'll take our money abroad.. And no one will tell me that it's impossible to write a law acceptable to all sides..
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| kabe1. 02. 2014 10:51:34 |
Why the hell are some of you so narrow-minded???  Damn landowners, if you can't survive with livestock, find a market niche elsewhere. The law will never be good for everyone anyway... Once Bratuškova will disadvantage YOU, then you'll disadvantage us-in the end you'll be left with nothing, we'll laugh and enjoy from other, foreign peaks ... you'll still have that knot in your stomach....
Opportunity missed, none returns!!
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| kabe1. 02. 2014 10:53:25 |
And one more thing... does hinting at bike prices point to the Slovenian national sport-favšija? Please!!!
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