Cyclists in the mountains
|
| cebelca2. 02. 2014 17:53:41 |
VanSims, it has been emphasized several times that the pedestrian has priority and none of us who advocate mountain biking here rings and shouts "Get out, I'M coming."
So please, stop this generalizing based on a few idiots who maybe do that.
| (+3) |  | |
|
|
|
|
| GregorC2. 02. 2014 17:56:04 |
VanSims says: "In every country there are rules where you can and where you can't." And that's exactly what we mountain bikers want to achieve, to finally determine where you can and where you can't. And that in a way that satisfies both sides. But if we follow the current law and the current draft (which is just a literal copy) then you simply can't do mountain biking in Slovenia, because there's a general ban on riding off roads, including cart tracks, field paths, uncategorized roads...
If I joke a bit: Selling mountain bike, possible trade for tractor
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| VanSims2. 02. 2014 17:56:07 |
Nobody generalized anything, nor did anyone say that someone shouts something. Cebelca, if you can't read well, it's not my fault.
@GregorC: Excessive behavior of some (I emphasize some, so no one jumps up again) is a consequence of there being no rules or they are too strict or something is just banned. It's the same in other areas. When were there most alcoholics in the USA? During prohibition! When was there most prostitution in England? During the worst puritanism of the Victorian era when they even covered piano legs so no one would think something...
I completely agree that this needs to be legally regulated and determined where you can cycle and where not. And that's exactly what I wanted to say with examples from abroad, unfortunately some twist words again. Abroad they have it nicely arranged and I fully support arranging it the same way here. And of course law is not enough, it needs to be enforced i.e. controlled and if necessary fine someone!
|
|
|
|
| tslok12. 02. 2014 18:11:33 |
Mr. Sims.
No offense but from your posts I see that you are quite a paranoid person, who sees only the bad sides in all things and also reacts quite aggressively. I'm sure that every cyclist you meet would greet you back, slow down or let you pass, if you greeted them nicely. If you approach with aggression, you can't expect sympathy from anyone.
| (+7) | | |
|
|
|
|
| VanSims2. 02. 2014 18:16:39 |
Yes, some really do greet, some are quiet. I also greet some. No problem for me to greet even younger ones.
But if walking on a hiking trail without wanting anything from anyone is already aggressive, then I don't know...
|
|
|
|
| GregorC2. 02. 2014 18:26:24 |
And when adopting laws, ALL involved parties must participate, hikers, cyclists, landowners, etc. Not just ONE side as in this case. Conflicts on trails also require two sides, and believe me, hikers are not innocent sheep (sticking poles between spokes, waving fists...)
| (+3) | | |
|
|
|
|
| lynx2. 02. 2014 18:42:31 |
So, who is actually participating? The draft is still in public consultation and MKO is waiting for responses. The more there are, the greater the chance that they will consider some of the contributions in the end.
|
|
|
|
| BorisM2. 02. 2014 18:45:49 |
The first task, to get us out of this law, seems to be fulfilled, I think our representatives have a meeting with Minister Židan on Monday or Tuesday.
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| lynx2. 02. 2014 18:59:03 |
If they take you out, nothing will be solved. Regulations need a legal basis and given past failures, there isn't enough for a comprehensive regulation yet.
|
|
|
|
| BorisM2. 02. 2014 19:55:12 |
If they take us out, it means they no longer equate us with motorbikes. We don't threaten nature, we ride on trails! Then probably a new law will be made to address our situation.
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| lynx2. 02. 2014 21:05:48 |
Which is completely irrational and MKO won't support it (dipping a toe in the water!). Given the already complex field, an additional lex specialis makes no sense and they will rather regulate it within ZON.
|
|
|
|
| cebelca2. 02. 2014 22:35:43 |
Lynx, and how do you know that? Do you even know what ZON regulates? Have you maybe read the explanation of reasons for adopting the ZON amendment?
|
|
|
|
| bostjanp3. 02. 2014 07:43:47 |
That anything can be done here as one pleases is known anyway. Why? Because laws are not enforced and not respected due to mild penalties. I'm really curious if any of these guys would go to Italy or Austria to ride trails not designated for mountain biking? I think none. Similar to road traffic. When they pass through Karavanke or cross the border, everyone drives nicely at 130 and respects the rules because they know the fines are high and uncompromising. So why don't the same people respect the written laws here??? One should ask "why is it so"?
Regards
|
|
|
|
| JusAvgustin3. 02. 2014 07:48:32 |
Quote: "You don't need to build anything, you already have everything here now. And that is the real wealth."
Given the ability of the Slovenian state to overpay for certain investments multiple times, at least here we are spared! Instead of developing, we are regressing! Idiocy without equal!
|
|
|
|
| VanSims3. 02. 2014 08:13:11 |
This guy doesn't say anything new that I wouldn't agree with. And nowhere did he say that you can ride a bike anywhere. He says you need to build a network of trails and offer it to cyclists. That's what I've been advocating all along.
That's how it is abroad even for non-mountain biking. Since I've cycled a lot abroad, I know that European countries are far ahead of us in this regard, so I believe they are in mountain biking too. Austrians have bike paths laid out in almost every valley, Germans and Swiss also have good infrastructure (the latter even have special paths for roller skaters). Romance countries lag a bit but are still at a solid level and far ahead of us. And of course we don't talk about the organization of cycling infrastructure in the Netherlands, which is a model for other European countries, for Slovenia pure science fiction
But try abroad to ride on a road forbidden for cycling (and it's not necessary that a sign indicates it because according to categorization it's defined as such in the law). If they catch you, nothing good awaits you...
|
|
|
|
| GregorC3. 02. 2014 13:29:46 |
Why build a network of trails if they are already made? You just need to put them into use and set the rules of the game. With total ban you won't solve the problem anyway, but you'll continue to leave anarchy.
Those who say that abroad there is also a ban on riding in natural environment are right. With the difference that this applies to MOTORIZED traffic, where unlike in Slovenia mountain bikes DO NOT belong. For cycling, in most cases the principle applies: allowed everywhere except where explicitly forbidden. And look at that, it works.
I can imagine the next scenario:
I'm cycling on a trail towards some alpine pasture on my environmentally extremely harmful human-powered bike somewhere in our mountains. Then a nature protection inspector catches up with me in his 4x4 diesel and slaps me with a 1000€ fine for riding in natural environment, on top confiscates the bike. Welcome to Slovenia!
| (+4) | | |
|
|
|
|
| VanSims3. 02. 2014 14:20:27 |
No smart person advocates for a ban of course. And I didn't mean literally "build". Of course some are already made, ridden.. They need to be marked, arranged and yes, above all set rules.
When you all say how everything is open abroad, I'm really curious why I've seen e.g. in France several times marked MTB trails, strictly separated from pedestrian paths. Also in Italy where supposedly it's allowed everywhere except where explicitly not, I've seen marked MTB trails, sometimes even on hiking paths. Why, if it's allowed everywhere anyway?
And how would someone fare with the authorities in e.g. such liberal Italy who published a downhill video on such a frequented trail as on Šmarna gora, if they caught him? The video over which we all gasped there wouldn't be anything special?
|
|
|
|
| GregorC3. 02. 2014 14:34:55 |
If you're not born for complicating then there's no one.
Pure peasant style just for you: have you ever thought that these are marked trails that are simply presented in brochures and various guides (here they are promised the name sinful literature) and are intended for easier orientation for tourists who don't know the area. As soon as you go on a tour with some local, he'll gladly take you also where there are no such marks and paths are less visited. And you'll still be riding on legal trails (even hiking ones above tree line and in high mountains), even if there's no MTB sign on the left.
More than obvious that you're one of those for whom DH is synonym for mountain biking. Anyway no point arguing with you, since in a few topics you've proven that only your right counts.
But still best regards.
| (+5) | | |
|
|
|
|
| lynx3. 02. 2014 17:55:49 |
One more interesting thing, because I know the bee didn't read the proposal:
"(1) In natural environment it is forbidden to ride, stop or organize rides with bicycles. Bicycle is a single-track or double-track vehicle powered by the driver with own power."
So, if you tow a trailer for children, have training wheels or something even more exotic with more tracks, the ban doesn't apply?
Joke, other legislation precisely defines both categories that cover the entire spectrum (1 < 50cm < 2).
|
|
|
You must log in to post a comment:
If you do not yet have a username, you must first
register.