Cyclists in the mountains
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| miri5. 02. 2014 19:56:15 |
@CAR I claim that if I picked up trash on mountain paths, I would never earn a pension. I walk a lot, but trash is very, very little, on some paths none at all. Cheers
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| korl5. 02. 2014 20:14:28 |
miri you wrote well, on mountain paths there really is no litter. Even on Šmarna gora which is the most visited hill by us there's no noteworthy trash, hikers are quite aware.
But go on foot along some road that leads from the valley to hill villages - under every road there's swept fireworks trash from cars that drives you crazy. Similarly various bulky waste and trash along forest paths from various villages to nearby forest, every year despite clean-up actions. Locals are still the biggest polluters, not newcomers. Amen
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| tine.sl5. 02. 2014 20:23:37 |
Even if we leave cans and trash for which everyone should take care themselves!
I just don't understand where everyone sees this terrible danger of injuries caused by cyclists on mountain and other paths.
In my quite long mountaineering and also touring cycling career, I haven't seen anything like that myself, and official statistics don't exactly abound on that side either.
Mountaineers among themselves, it happens. But that some cyclist would hit a hiker, that's rarely heard.
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| VanSims5. 02. 2014 20:30:30 |
Rarely or not rarely, the law (be it good or bad) is such that you can't ride on hiking trails so the cyclist is always responsible for the accident - towards hikers, dogs, wild animals,... Insurance won't pay a single cent in any accident.
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| tine.sl5. 02. 2014 23:17:51 |
What you're saying is all hypothetical, all ifs, ifs, ifs.
VanSims, has a dog ever bitten you on some hiking trail? Has a cyclist hit you or anyone else? I mean physically not in imagination, like yeah, if it would have or almost hit me.
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| VanSims6. 02. 2014 10:50:45 |
I don't know why personal attack again, when I just warned kindly.
A dog has bitten me yes but not in the mountains but that doesn't matter at all. Cyclists though... anyone who regularly rides e.g. on Ljubljana bike paths will tell you that there you can really see how far human nonchalance, rudeness and audacity goes. I assume it's no different in the mountains. because character usually doesn't change with environment. And do I really need something to happen to me to have the right to speak?
"Only hikers among themselves, it happens. But a cyclist hitting a hiker, that's rarely heard.rolling eyes"
Really? A cyclist hasn't hit anyone yet?... don't you get it? No one has hit a pedestrian or what? Just that since it's mostly minor injuries they don't even call the police which means those accidents aren't statistically recorded. And hikers hitting each other, well that's barefoot...
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| BorisM6. 02. 2014 12:11:22 |
VanSims, now you're exaggerating a bit! You can't compare cyclists on PST with those in the mountains. Problems with mountain bikers are mainly on accessible trails where there's a cable car or car access. There are also higher concentrations, and yes those guys ride faster, already because they know the trail better. Those of us who go a bit higher ride slower precisely because we don't know the trail.
And to defend ourselves, I don't advocate crazy riding and fast on trails! I'm very much against it! Unfortunately, it's just those irresponsible ones who throw bad light on all of us.
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| tine.sl6. 02. 2014 16:25:38 |
VanSims, as usual you're spinning nonsense!
Tell one single example where a mountain biker hit a hiker and the incident is officially recorded, if you know it.
Otherwise talk about things you know something about. Not so generally, if everyone is in your way, that doesn't mean they are in mine too.
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| VanSims6. 02. 2014 16:43:25 |
@BorisM: In every interest group there are weirdos who think they can do whatever and unfortunately others judge every such group by the worst. And that's exactly why we need good laws in every area and to enforce them.
Even on LJ paths 90% cyclists ride normally, but 10% others are enough for the chaos there is (and PST is still quite OK) Hikers are mostly OK too but there are, no need to list again, those who litter, who don't behave towards fellow hikers, who listen to music loud, yell, get drunk in huts,... Because of some who don't watch out and care about safety we're often branded by non-hikers as 'those who go up there to challenge something.' These are of course all prejudices based on a small percentage of people. Same with southerners, blacks, beggars, vegetarians, gays,...
I never said all mountain cyclists are bad.
@tine.sl: OK I give up, no cyclist has hit anyone yet, only pedestrians among themselves.
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| BorisM6. 02. 2014 16:50:42 |
See, slowly you'll get to the point that you shouldn't judge all cyclists by a few idiots who don't know how to behave. We demand nothing else but equal treatment. If I cause damage, punish me, if not, I see no reason for restrictions.
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| VanSims6. 02. 2014 16:52:44 |
I agree, but restrictions are just for those 10 or fewer percent who don't know how to behave. Of course they shouldn't be such that substantially limit those who do. So we need such a system and of course to enforce it. How much should be allowed, forbidden, open, closed,... is a matter of debate. Of course if too much is allowed there are also greater possibilities for abuse by those few percent.
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| BorisM6. 02. 2014 17:02:45 |
Remember what a fuss it was thirty years ago when we started snowboarding. Skiers were foaming mad, as if there were ten dead every weekend. But look today, nobody even mentions anymore that there's some problem somewhere. They just made side facilities for the young wilder ones.
Probably same for these 10%, need to allow them to arrange their own trails where they'll ride themselves out. Probably won't get rid of them otherwise, neither us nor you.
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| FSkok6. 02. 2014 17:04:45 |
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| tol7. 02. 2014 09:16:37 |
oh FSkok...
Tell the truth. Do you drive by car to Jermanca?
you wrote "The reason and basis for the restriction and punishment is currently this law;".
Yes it's the basis, but you didn't provide the answers on "REASON"...
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| FSkok7. 02. 2014 10:56:38 |
@tol
Once again, I hope this is clear enough for you;
Article 19 clearly states that cycling on marked trails is not allowed. The reason is probably that most marked trails were "made" for and because of hiking, which the writers of this law took into account, while leaving the option to reclassify ANY mountain trail, see the third point of the same article! So I don't know why you're wasting time and energy writing nonsense, instead of directing it towards legalizing some marked trail. Got it?
Yes, I usually drive to Jermanca by car for various reasons, even though there's a prohibition sign below, so I risk a fine. But I certainly can't pretend and convince others that it's allowed, because it's not. So here's friendly advice  , when you break the aforementioned law, be glad because (almost 100%) you won't be fined, and don't pretend it's allowed, because it's not!
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| cebelca7. 02. 2014 11:21:05 |
Well, finally it's coming out... that hypocrisy. 
Franci, just like you risk a fine, so do we. And no one is convincing anyone that it's allowed, we all know it's NOT. Here we're discussing the sense of this ban.
You say it's sensible, we say it's not and unlike you we're trying to get rid of this ban.
What are you doing about lifting the ban on driving to Jermanca?
I'd say nothing. You'll keep driving and hoping you don't get caught. And how are you different from us then?
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| VanSims7. 02. 2014 11:47:02 |
FSkok has finally quoted the article that shuts up those who claim everything is closed here. Not only has no one done anything in that direction to get something done, marked, adapted some trail for MTB... or, done something to get permission to open some trail. They would just ride. Well, that doesn't work...
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| cebelca7. 02. 2014 12:00:05 |
VanSims again knows everything about what everyone does and what they don't.
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| BorisM7. 02. 2014 12:19:42 |
VanSims, it's not that we're not trying, but the law is so badly written that in seven years only one trail has been legalized.
Senseless laws are there to be broken, if someone doesn't like something, they can turn the page!
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| tslok17. 02. 2014 12:27:42 |
Don't pay attention to VanSims. I checked other forums a bit and I notice that the on-duty busybody, the on-duty grumbler, is always the smartest, who always comments something stupid without thinking. Very negative person who looks for problems and creates conflicts where there are none!
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