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Equipment

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Marky7. 10. 2011 12:16:26
Hello!
Given that winter is already at the door and I haven't bought anything for winter ascents yet, I'm interested in what you recommend.
So, from shoes, gaiters to pants, windbreaker, ...

Thanks..
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YoYo7. 10. 2011 12:22:16
How much money do you have?
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keber17. 10. 2011 13:22:23
Winter equipment is much more expensive than summer equipment. First quality pants and windbreaker; I have ski-hiking pants from Gore-Tex, for the upper body an excellent Windstopper softshell for conditions down to -10 while walking and an extra Gore-Tex windbreaker.
Then very important are good gloves, hands get cold there first. Hat, hat liner, thermal underwear or ski gear if you do that.
Good gaiters are available for little money; if you have good summer shoes (good sole, thick leather), they will be good for winter too. For something heavier than Velika Planina with cable car, of course crampons and ice axe. Don't buy small crampons, you'll outgrow them quickly.

How much does it cost? Depends on quality; what I have totals around 1000 €, but it's fairly good gear. I bought it in parts, one year this, next that, as you increase the difficulty of trips.
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Marky7. 10. 2011 13:38:09
Indeed, everything always depends on money, but this time I didn't set any limit on that. All that matters is that it's quality and will hold up for both easier and maybe slightly harder winter ascents (I have in mind winter visits to almost all Slovenian peaks).
I just looked at TERRA SPORT and they have quite interesting deals.
Keber, I too decided to buy in two parts. In the first part boots, pants, jacket and of course the other layers, while next year ice axe, crampons, ... (currently I can still borrow them, so..).
Well, before I make any purchase, I'll of course ask for your opinions, those of you with more experience..
Thanks for the answers wink
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ljubitelj gora7. 10. 2011 13:57:11
Maybe first define what demanding tours you'll go on, like Tromeja, Dobrča, Velika Planina, Debela peč; there you don't need crampons or ice axe, while Storžič, Vrtača, Jalovec, Stol clearly require crampons, ice axe + other boots with stiffer sole, they cost around 200 euros, if there's a sale then even just 100 euros.
Given that some day in the mountains is pleasant, windless and with a bit of southern snow, you can go to Raduha and similar ascents even without crampons.

For the start it's better to buy some basic equipment, borrow some and go. It's nice in the hills in winter, some day is tough because of sinking, some day great when packed but still, if tight on money, better always have crampons + ice axe with you... those two you can borrow at Iglusport.
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keber17. 10. 2011 14:32:40
@ljubitelj gora, don't write nonsense if you don't know things in practice. Even a pleasant, windless day with little southern snow can easily end tragically without crampons, even on Raduha. For such mountains you must take crampons with ice axe, only on site you see if you'll need them or not.

@Marky: most expensive purchase is clothing, especially quality. And when I bought windstopper last year, high price doesn't necessarily promise best quality, especially since some brands are heavily overpriced.
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keber17. 10. 2011 15:24:25
Maybe this too, for the most expensive equipment parts (jackets, pants) I don't buy right away, but go multiple times to try several models in several shops, then you find out that a certain model you almost dreamed about and would buy on first go, actually doesn't suit you at all. Rushing harms.
because it's really a shame to buy windstopper for 250 euros, then find out it's total crap below 0°C.
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blazek337. 10. 2011 15:28:52
With purchase of winter equipment especially crampons and ice axe you need to know how to use them too, because it can be even more dangerous than if you don't have them. Especially stopping with ice axe in case of falls on steep slopes, and walking with crampons without front teeth catching in the pants.
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Zebdi7. 10. 2011 17:15:25
@MajaO: I'd check Sigma 50/1.4 in your place. It can surprise you big grin

@Marky: if starting from zero, definitely take boot with possibility of attaching automatic crampons. If buying for myself, I'd assemble complete like this: leather boot for automatic crampons, softshell pants, Craft long-sleeve underwear, powerstretch vest or similar thin fleece, very thin windstopper or softshell and down jacket for breaks. This covers about 95% of needs for me. If not planning ice climbing, I recommend hiking crampons not climbing ones (horizontal vs. vertical front teeth position), mandatory with rubber/plastic against snow buildup. For gaiters make sure they are as snug as possible, thus reducing chance of crampons catching and consequent fall. Lowe Alpine ones with zipper work great for me.

@ljubitelj gora: you confidently claim no crampons needed on Debela peč. Ever looked where that flank ends just below summit? Nice that love for mountains grabbed you, but don't put others in danger with your advice.
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keber17. 10. 2011 17:30:07
I wouldn't take ljubitelj gora seriously, because he has absolutely no experience from winter mountains, let alone from the necessary equipment. Everything he listed, you also need crampons, unless it's completely rotten snow or that first one is totally fresh (then they don't help anyway).

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jax7. 10. 2011 17:49:40
If I'm totally honest, I have to admit that at this point I agree more with ljubitelj gora than with keber. I was in winter already on Debela peč and on Raduha and - yes, in normal conditions crampons up there are not needed (by the way, neither on one nor on the other mountain was I alone and among those who I was up with, no one had crampons). The path is trampled anyway, snow in nice weather usually is not frozen (but if you go when it is, you'll need them). And to avoid misunderstanding - I had crampons with me. But I saw no need to put them on.
Other thing - crampons in case of slips are pretty useless or even harmful. To claim that you need them because you might slip is nonsense. In case of a slip the key is the ICE AXE and knowledge of stopping. And that is what we must always master, crampons come along on harder and more icy terrains.
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jax7. 10. 2011 17:55:03
And one more comment, this time to zebdiju: regarding plastic boots and automatic crampons. I also bought such then and have to admit that I partly regret it. Reason is simple: keep in mind that ice axe and crampons are not intended only for winter, but also for certain sections on summer paths (Hanzova on Prisojnik anyone?). And if now you buy winter boots (in which walking is only slightly better than in ski boots), they are distinctly unsuitable for such paths. And what now? There are three options: go on such tours also in winter boots (which is very uncomfortable), play the suicidal and try without crampons (not recommended), or buy another pair (hm, are we millionaires?). So it almost seems to me that for a recreational who wants to hike also in winter, but does not actually intend to venture into ice climbing, an almost better or more universal option is good, strong universal boots and ordinary strap-on crampons. Of course this is just my opinion ...
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JusAvgustin7. 10. 2011 17:55:57
Ice axe and crampons are always used together...
it's like dad on mom. Whoever claims otherwise doesn't know much about winter ascents...
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ljubitelj gora7. 10. 2011 18:10:08
I was on Debela peč in summer, but my brother was on Debela peč in winter and he told me that snowshoes would have been more useful than crampons, there was softer snow back then.
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Zebdi7. 10. 2011 18:24:34
@jax: uh yeah, for me it's obvious that if you have crampons on your feet, you have an ice axe in your hands. I'll explicitly emphasize that next time, I promise velik nasmeh It's true that the snow is usually not frozen and crampons aren't normally needed there, but if there's a weather change and sudden drop in temperature, conditions can change quickly. I'm not saying it freezes in 15 min, but in a few hours the difference can be noticeable. And if the route is normally passable in one direction, it doesn't mean conditions will be the same on the way back. That's why and only why I say that crampons and ice axe belong on every tour, then we decide on use based on current conditions.

To comment on the other part: nowhere did I suggest plastic, but leather boots - those are much more comfortable for walking than plastic ones. I've been using Salomon Super Mountain Guide 9 for a few seasons now; great stuff, practically indestructible. I was on Špik in early summer in them, and walking didn't feel overly uncomfortable. I suggested such boots and automatic crampons exclusively because the thread author asked about winter gear. If it was about gear useful all year round, I'd probably suggest semi-automatic crampons and appropriate boots. When I bought gear for myself, instead of a compromise solution I opted for summer and winter sets; it's true I also do ice climbing. So in winter good leather boot + automatic crampons, in summer currently La Sportiva Trango S + lightweight strap-on crampons. I could have gone for lightweight semi-automatics, but it seems to me more and more that the next summer boot won't support that option. velik nasmeh Two sets of boots and crampons are more expensive, but at least for me a much more comfortable solution; after all, I don't change gear every year mežikanje
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JusAvgustin7. 10. 2011 19:24:07
when you add it all up it's better to sit down, since the figure is well into four digits... I'm also for the principle, higher quality-longer lasting... pants at least 100, good gaiters 30-50, jacket 100-150, shell from 200 up, base layers 100, crampons from 100 up, ice axe 70, boots from 200 up, gloves (ones that keep you warm nasmeh) from 50 up, hat, helmet, avalanche trio... down jacket... just for clothes you spend a fortune, where's the rest (in my case climbing gear...) We're at a couple thousand right away mrk pogled, but when you have it... you have it
of course I listed mid-range clothes, you can buy cheaper or more expensive. I shop in at least 4 storesnasmeh
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Zebdi7. 10. 2011 19:38:20
If you wait for end-of-season sales, you can save quite a bit of money mežikanje
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JusAvgustin7. 10. 2011 19:40:12
I fully agree with you...mežikanje
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ljubitelj gora7. 10. 2011 20:00:23
If going minimally.
Assuming everyone already has a couple of warm clothing items in the closet.
First you'd need gaiters, because without gaiters snow will fly into your boots; second, you need crampons and thus boots with stiff soles. In Alpina they had -50% sales, you could get them for 80 euros. Ice axe for demanding ascents (MM, Vrtača, ...), since normal pants aren't good, you also need good pants with gaiters and base layer pants. For windbreaker, I wouldn't pay 300 euros, since you can get one for 40 euros, underneath wear something normal (warm)... with some writing about XXXX figure, I don't know if you're rich or have 1500 euro salary.
In nice weather you can do the tour even with normal clothes. I, for example, went to Raduha in tracksuit pants and over them rain pants, likewise to Sv. Višarje - result was great, it worked super; you're wet in any pants.
Sometimes I rode a motorcycle, and one evening outside it was -17 C; I dressed over ski suit, gloves that said -40, scarf and helmet - some XX rags, but I rode like that for years on motorcycle without problems, never froze.
Still, try some easier winter tour and later you'll come to the conclusion yourself what all you need. Everyone buys this themselves, some spend 400 euros, others 3000 euros for gear. It's like this: I'm sort of half-born mountaineer, this today's snow doesn't surprise me, outside barely +1C, but I was already wandering outside in the snow picking mushrooms. Even some wind that constantly blows up here doesn't surprise me. Our air and mountain air have no difference, but there is a difference between ours and valley air. To continue, when you have crampons, ice axe, clothes, gaiters, you also need knowledge when it's safe to head to the mountains; right after snowfall normally no, snow needs to settle, but since even this gear won't suffice you'll have to buy again shovel with probe, some snowshoes, touring skis... always something. Still adding my opinion: I wouldn't head to MM, Vrtača without experience, at least some winter course that's organized these days.


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