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| SPIDER15. 01. 2012 13:22:00 |
When snow starts accumulating(sticking) on these chains there can be a party too
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| Pohodnica5615. 01. 2012 18:45:24 |
True, it's a party when you suddenly have thick soles . Luckily the sole "peels off" quickly and you land back on the hard teeth. Of course such a sole when falling from ice into softer gripping snow. Annoying to put them on and off, since after a few meters you step on ice again. I completely agree they're useful only for "kuclje", where paths are comfortable enough. Narrow, ridge, steep drops....no way. Better stay home and run two laps around the house.
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| ninaub15. 01. 2012 18:53:51 |
Last time someone had them on descent from Debele peči. Landed quite nicely on his butt on that slightly frozen path. So... No thanks 
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| Misantrof15. 01. 2012 18:59:01 |
Interesting that you're willing to pay money for all sorts of nonsense, but about 100 euros for "proper" crampons seems such a problem that some would rather wrap barbed wire around their boots, just to then inform the forum that you can somehow crawl to the top like that too.
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| Pohodnica5615. 01. 2012 19:13:30 |
Misantrof, no need to be sarcastic. Some don't have 100€ for "fancy" crampons, just like they don't for some Gore tex clothes, but still they'd like to get to Ratitovec for example or Zelenica. And it's good to tell them politely too, don't you think?
Sorry if I was sarcastic
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| katty15. 01. 2012 19:19:16 |
This was said nicely clearly and loudly, Pohodnica56  . I'm currently jobless, and unfortunately can't afford the better ones . But when I get a job, definitely straight to buy. No worry. Hey Misantrof, I anyway don't spend much money on clothes now, because I can't afford it currently. But later the gear, this and that, will be much better and more of it.
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| Pohodnica5615. 01. 2012 19:28:40 |
Katty, no need to worry about various Misantrofs and others and just happily head to the mountains. Some up here are really "puffed up" arrogant. As if only the most expensive gear is the measure to reach the goal. I started hiking in mountains with cheaper shoes, old t-shirts, because there was no money for more, but I enjoyed 200 per hour when I first climbed to Velika Planina. It took a couple years to equip myself a bit better, the ascents were accordingly. But even today I immensely enjoy when I puff to some summit, even if just Zelenica. So katty, onward courageously.
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| Misantrof15. 01. 2012 19:33:24 |
Maybe my "arrogance" will save someone's life, but in any case I don't intend to praise things that seem inappropriate to me personally and thereby give certain users excessive confidence in only partially functional products.
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| Pohodnica5615. 01. 2012 20:01:21 |
Yes you will, if you advise properly, or rather advise against ascents that are inappropriate, advise against hikes like today to Kriško in sneakers, I was horrified, but you can get to Kriško with small Veriga crampons. Let's be friendly people and not rude to those who also want to see some beautiful piece of our homeland. You never know what situation the person asking is in. There are no stupid questions, only inappropriate answers.
Lots of enjoyment on all your paths and I'll gladly read some of your comments.
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| 5Xum15. 01. 2012 22:46:17 |
Misantrof, you are exactly the type of forum user I was writing against. The type who thinks that only pros are here, who if they don't climb at least the north face of Triglav, don't call it mountaineering anyway.
With nagging about these crampons you won't save even one life, if that one listens to more normal comments from the hiker and others first. From those comments he'll realize that he shouldn't go with micro-crampons on routes where life is in any danger, and that will save his life sooner than your lecturing that he has to spend at least 100 euros on gear.
And about these 100 euros. I'm a student with 250 euros scholarship. The difference between 20 euro micro-crampons that get me everywhere I want and those for 100 is money I have enough for food for two months. So yes, some of us in Slovenia for whom 100 euros is a lot, and saving 80 euros means a third of monthly income.
Or do you think such people have no business in the mountains?
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| Loni16. 01. 2012 14:07:37 |
Whether they are better or not is hard to say, it depends where, when and in what conditions.
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| IgorZlodej17. 01. 2012 17:42:10 |
@turbo wrote:
There are alpine and touring crampons...
There are ice axes and tools (machines)
And limousines and SUVs
- touring crampons,
- ice axes and half tools,
- SUV.
For serious winter ascents definitely 12-point crampons, although lately I mostly use Black Diamond 14-point ice crampons, which perform excellently in current mountain conditions.
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| katty18. 01. 2012 15:13:21 |
Well, I bought them, these very controversial Mount Track crampons for some. And yesterday they really performed excellently. Super grip, no fear of slipping. So I'm extremely satisfied with them.
Greetings, Katarina
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| 5Xum18. 01. 2012 15:21:38 |
Katty, for all users reading this, can you also say where you used them?
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| katty18. 01. 2012 15:27:19 |
Um, from Mrežc down to the starting point even lower down from Blejska Hut.
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| TejaB21. 01. 2012 07:01:40 |
Here's my opinion from practice. I have 12-point semi-automatics, 8-point lightweight aluminum strap-ons (which also have forward-pointing front teeth) and ice traction "native" microspikes (http://www.kibuba.com/index.php?&cID=5&scID=36&pID=5140). They all perform well on their terrain. For winter tours in high mountains I always have 12-pointers (for comparison I tested 8-pointers in Turkish Gully (steep), but feel better on 12s - difference more noticeable on descent), 8-pointers I carry in spring and early summer when need to cross snow patches here and there (bought them because semi-automatics don't fit every boot and didn't want to walk in glacier boots in summer e.g. on Hanza to Prisank). Tested small spikes on same paths as Katty and they work great there. Bought them for walking and running on icy mid-mountain paths, because small and light, can have them always even in hip pouch and put on trail runners. Since they have Velcro safety strap on top, they don't come off if points get caught.
For those 6-pointers on previous page, I think they are safer than chain ones because can attach perfectly to boots (can't slip off), longer points reduce slip risk, but for high mountains (or steep terrain walking) still not suitable, because need front points for uphill.
One more. I think it's especially important for less experienced mountaineers to have terrain-suitable gear, very experienced manage with worse. To those who can't afford 12-point crampons and ice axe, I recommend joining a mountaineering club (if not members), do a tour with them to learn to use the mentioned gear, then borrow it for own tours from them. Our club lends gear free to members.
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| ciklama21. 01. 2012 21:17:41 |
Today I experienced that these little chains aren't too safe. Snow builds up right away in those small teeth and when you step on ice, they don't grip. It swept me on an icy patch, scratched up my face all over. Next time in such conditions I'll rather put on small 4-point crampons, which grip much better on ice. Although a snowball forms in them too - in these conditions just gotta be even more careful.
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| otiv21. 01. 2012 21:53:41 |
@ciklama the proverb ain't wrong, every school costs something. Good you got off cheap and will take us slightly older hill folk more seriously in future, who've been on our butts many times.
Good luck!
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