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Which flower is this?

zlatica27. 08. 2018 16:11:06

otiv, you were quite close, it's dyer's saw-wort, which belongs among Asteraceae, just like knapweeds and so no wonder it reminded you of them. Good sign that you recognize the family already! nasmeh

By the way, it's also on Osolnik, where your foot likes to go. ciao
http://www.zaplana.net/flowers/Asteraceae/SerratulaTinctoria(BarvilnaMacina)/si_SerratulaTinctoria(BarvilnaMacina).asp

otiv27. 08. 2018 16:29:15

Zlatica, thanks...we cooperate excellently. velik

Maybe tomorrow we find something interesting too.

velkavrh27. 08. 2018 16:31:32

I didn't know there are two types of silky gentian.

Does anyone know where marsh gentian would bloom - it should bloom into September too - on Pokljuka marshes I didn't see it this year. Or is it on Ljubljana moor?

otiv27. 08. 2018 18:26:56

Another knapweed giving me gray hairs. velik

Is it common or narrow-leaved? zmeden

zlatica27. 08. 2018 20:06:23

Otiv, that's quite a harder identification just from the photo, since exactly these two knapweeds have lots of similarities: both have slightly torn involucral leaves, but not really toothed, narrow-leaved is taller, common shorter, a bit over half meter, both have lanceolate leaves, only common k. has wider leaves, leaf length shorter in common (max 7x width), in narrow-leaved 8x width. Since you have the overall view of the knapweed from the field, you'll decide yourself based on these traits. One more thing, I know Gaudin one, which has slightly grayish hairy leaves, similar has narrow-leaved, while common knapweed is smooth. Pity you didn't take a specimen from the field, as then easier to study at home. I usually do that if not protected flower. Can't help more. lp mežikanje

velkavrh29. 08. 2018 05:35:39

We could say unrevealed secrets of the mountain pink world.

Also here as outside our borders I often see sivice. I think I distinguish two species here - streamside and obirska - at least I think. But I can't claim I really do. Otherwise -ohoh- from 17.01.2016 it slightly hurts me for such my mentions, but I only give my non-professional opinions, since I'm not professional botanist but only amateurly study mountain flora - especially mountain flowers. In Flora Alpina, which is considered by real botanists who know alpine mountain flowers as credible and quite good handbook, exactly for obirska sivica there are no good pics. Supposedly obirska sivica has slightly gray, cobwebby leaves, which however in presentation say of sivice on Zaplana.net (they have only that shown) I don't see. Here should grow also orange and curly one. Conditionally also oak-leaved and meadow. Borderline is also T. capitata similar to orange and T. tenuifolia.

Since I move a bit also in Italy and Austria this year on lower part of Karnics right below peak Starhand (border mountain Austria-Italy - actually peak already in Austria) I photographed some sivica (picture below - not best - but leaves quite well visible). By leaves we can quite accurately determine sivice. By leaves I'd determine it as T. balbisiana - this species of course doesn't grow here. Streamside doesn't have such fringed leaves as this one I saw there.

What do you say zlatica and Apolonija?

These are the leaves of this rockrose - they are not like those of the brook rockrose or the curly one.

I have also found curly rockrose locally - it has a slightly more vivid yellow color.

zlatica29. 08. 2018 15:07:00

I have to say that I haven't seriously engaged with sivice yet. Years ago I found one on Bohor that I was convinced was a sivica, but I didn't know where to classify it, since I didn't have the whole bunch of literature available that I have today, and it seemed to differ from obirska sivica as I have it in mind. I only remembered it now when you brought up sivice. For the beginning of the discussion on this topic, I'm attaching a picture and asking how you would classify it. Is it nevertheless obirska or some other?

velkavrh29. 08. 2018 18:32:08

zlatica, your sivica is without doubt the stream sivica. It looks like stream and obirska sivica are being mixed up. Alenka from Kamniški vrh also says that obirska sivica has stem and leaves white, densely hairy, so it is like on my picture number 3. Stream sivica is also shown by Peter Strgar - it is like the one zlatica found. As I observe, stream is much more common than obirska.

Apolonija29. 08. 2018 19:28:48

I agree with Brane. Yours doesn't have characteristic "whitish" leaves, but it seems to me typical for stream sivica. Of course it would be easier if we had the plant in front of us.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Tephroseris+crispa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj80_Kb4JLdAhVM66QKHU9nApQQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=928#imgrc=LgzDtUZ_ZQ7PyM:

Brane, even from your picture it's hard to say which sivica it is. It could be T. balbisiana, or not. Probably we'd need more data.
http://luirig.altervista.org/pics/display.php?pos=363938

zlatica29. 08. 2018 19:39:23

Thanks to both, so I learned that I have another sivica. But sivice are quite poorly covered with good pictures, when I went today to check what is available and Branko, yes really, as you say, in Flora Alpina in my opinion it's not just a bad picture, but completely wrong, since that obirska sivica has completely thin, long lance-shaped leaves, like e.g. porovolistna škržolica has, and even a dry flower specimen. Really strange. I know obirska sivica only from Kamniški vrh, which of course has white woolly leaves and stem, although I must say that when older, this gray fades considerably.

velkavrh2. 09. 2018 12:48:40

The whole weekend and Monday too hikes were canceled due to too bad weather, so I have too much time and I started researching these my yellows. I'll have a lot of work here. Next year I'll focus precisely on the genus radičevke (Asteraceae). In this genus we also have škržolice, dimke and jajčarji or otavčiči. Well, I'll try to present škržolice a bit.

Like this year and previous years I photographed quite a few species of them. Now I know exactly that I really need to photograph flowers well - especially involucres, stems and leaves on stem and basal. The photos really must show if the flower has only one flower on stem or more, if it's branched stem with flowers or not (e.g. rušnata, češuljasta, oranžne, lediniška - in these four flowers are clustered at top of stem).

In Slovenia we have a huge number of škržolice species (won't list the four mentioned again). Let's go somehow in order as in the handbook Flora Alpina - something special is greenish pečnikovec - I think I have photo, continuing with škržolice - hoppejeva, dolgodlakava (think I have photo), uhata, florentinska, bauhinova, gozdna - has several subspecies, razcepljena - several subspecies, modrozelena - several subspecies, gladkostebelna, sedmograška, kosmata - most known, morisova, dlakava - several subspecies, alpska, nizka, obrasla, porovolistna - easily recognizable by leaves, prerastovolistna, sinja, zajčicolistna, grozdasta - several subspecies, savojska - several subspecies, kobulasta and gladka - several subspecies. Hoppe lists also belkasto - I checked - it's border. Unconfirmed is pegasta - several subspecies, bleda - several subspecies, as border only two are marked.

So work for studying more than enough.

Flower of greenish pečnikovec - flower photo taken at Zelenica.

Not yet bloomed flowers of that škržolica - photos taken on botanical path-Črna prst.

Long-haired škržolica - fairly common - has only one flower on stem, light yellow flower color, lower.

Forest škržolica - common - has several subspecies - leaves vary greatly.

Orange škržolica - first found this year on Pokljuka.

Cleft škržolica - common - several subspecies - mixes with forest one.

Leaves of this škržolica which can vary greatly.

Rusty deadnettle photographed on Vremščica.

I have two more unidentified photos from Velebit -Croatia -this is the first.

This one from Velebit is particularly interesting.

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zlatica3. 09. 2018 10:11:02

Hello Branko! You've taken on a tough task, the hawkweed genus is a hard nut to crack, even botanists break their teeth on it! But where there's a will there's a way and some can be figured out, some species only under magnifying glass or microscope. The Asteraceae family is so vast you get lost in it. For me from 49 hawkweed species listed by MFS for Slovenia, only a few are recognizable: orange h., because it's so special, hairy h. - common and beautiful, porovolistna h. - characteristic long lanceolate leaves, savojska h. - A. Mihorič showed it to me recently, long-haired h. and divided hawkweed. MFS doesn't say divided has several subspecies in Slovenia. Quite well recognizable are also češuljasta h. and rušnata, but I haven't noticed them in nature yet. This green pečnikovec is an interesting plant, Flora Alpina does classify it among hawkweeds as Hieracium staticifolium, but in Mala Flora Slovenije this flower is not listed among hawkweeds, but under name Chlorocrepis staticifolia (synonym) as the only species of pečnikovec genus within Asteraceae. Branko, if this is really pečnikovec under picture 1 and 2, then on Zelenica this is one of unknown sites, since this species "grows mainly along alpine rivers (Soča, Sava, Savinja, Drava and tributaries), mainly in alpine and prealpine phytogeographic area" (Nejc Jogan) - in Bovško, Trenta, Loška Koritnica, Upper Sava valley...
Anyway, I welcome your studious approach to radičevke and hope you'll keep us informed with novelties and photos of various dimki, hawkweeds, škrbinke, jajčarji etc.... lp

(+1)

velkavrh3. 09. 2018 14:24:18

In Italy I photographed one more of the hawkweeds that I don't know well. On thin hairy stem it has only one flower. Characteristic for it are red-colored lower flower petals. Among my pictures I also have alpine and hoppejeva.

(+1)

zlatica3. 09. 2018 14:58:31

As far as I know, two hawkweeds have reddish leaves on the underside, Hoppejeva (H.hoppeanum) and long-haired (H.pilosella), which is well visible on this page by A. M. http://kamniski-vrh.net/n3_o.html#hgl

velkavrh4. 09. 2018 06:54:47

Yes, correct zlatica. On kamniški-vrh.net my acquaintance has really good pictures of both these hawkweeds. Such presentation is right - well photographed flower - especially for certain flowers the involucre and leaves on stem and basal must be well shown. In Flora Alpina just for these two hawkweeds it's not well visible. But for hoppejeva the characteristic scales on involucre and leaf are well visible - but on this picture no redness on lower petals, which of course misleads, for dolgodlakava - whole meadow - but redness is hardly visible - nothing else visible.

nacka.4. 09. 2018 09:48:00

Meanwhile, while you other forumers had to gnaw your knees to break through to mountain flowers, I chose a much more comfortable path myself. Here are photos of flower beds in Tsarskoye Selo, St. Petersburg, Russia.

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velkavrh5. 09. 2018 08:33:01

A few this year's flower memories from our mountains.

For me the most beautiful among hawkweeds - clasping-leaved hawkweed.

Pannonian scabious - when it starts to bloom we know that autumn is not far.

Volnatoglavi osat adorns pastures - thistle with the largest flower.

Rock prem? has already finished blooming - I haven't found other prem yet.

Snake cotoneaster is beautiful in groups.

Cuckoo-flower delights us also in the valley - but not on fertilized meadows.

Alpine nebina - they are very beautiful.

Speckled orchid - orchids are a rather unexplored field for me.

Dark-leaved willowherbs are quite common.

(+1)

Apolonija5. 09. 2018 08:57:35

Nacka, it looks like you had a nice vacation. I only go to the garden. nasmeh

(+3)

nacka.5. 09. 2018 10:50:20

Dear Apolonija,

you have a wonderful garden and thank you for letting us peek into it.

My husband and I treated ourselves to a ten-day cruise on the Volga with the severance pay upon retirement. Given my recent knee injury, the trip where it was more about brain cell exercise through learning history and other features of this vast land than physical effort was welcome.

I hope to heal my knee soon and post some photos more suitable for this forum. In about a year and a half I significantly improved my fitness with daily average 5-6 kilometer walks. Probably too much asphalt and resulting knee pain.

Best regards,

Nacka

(+1)

velkavrh6. 09. 2018 19:25:26

Well, let's look at ragworts a bit. We often confuse them with butterburs. The most recognizable is surely the golden ragwort - even this flower varies in colors from yellow to strong orange and we still mix it with hawkbit (otavičem); surely we wouldn't mix the fleshy red one. Mighty is the mountain ragwort - it has large leaves and on a high stem there is only one large yellow flower, the capitulum is usually not visible because the lower floral leaves cover it, it is 40-50 cm high; common is the prealpine ragwort and also Kerner's ragwort - they differ by leaves and Kerner's ragwort has several flowers on the stem; rush-leaved we mix with hairy butterbur; Triglav one I haven't found yet. Probably not hard to recognize the biennial ragwort on valley meadows. We have a whole bunch of ragworts that we know poorly - swamp one I don't know, velekoška one I don't know, eaten one I don't know, roof one I don't know, poppy-leaved I don't know, hairy one I don't know, bladder one I don't know, bristly one I don't know. Zali ragwort, dandelion-leaved and kimasti are not confirmed. There also exist border - rustling, smelly, Jacquin's and one more that has no Slovenian name.