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Bohinj 2864

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Holcar226. 03. 2013 16:48:07
Regarding the emerging ski resort, especially the latter: it seems unreasonable to me that so many people in the poll have supported its construction so far. Mainly because of the following:

-for its creation, a huge amount of biologically important mountain forest would need to be cut down, "which is not just anything"(PV).

-although it may not look like it today and the ski resort would not have snow problems in winters like the one we're witnessing right now, European recommendations state that ski resorts between 1500 and 2000 meters have no development future. And this due to upcoming climate changes. The current winter was already predicted in the fall as the worst winter of this century. To avoid misunderstanding, the 21st century, from 2000 to 2099. No upcoming winter is supposed to have such an abundance of snow as this one, it will get warmer and warmer, green winters will become more frequent and we could list more indicators. This winter was the "last blow with the tail". Probably everyone knows the sad fate of Mariborsko Pohorje. During the construction years, problems with (lack of) snow were rare, but they became increasingly frequent, especially there due to the mixing of subpannonian climate with moderate continental, and even with less precipitation. Many times this winter on Mariborsko Pohorje, it mostly rained in the lower part of the slope, while wet snow fell in the upper. The ski resort of course has enough "budget" for regular snowmaking, but it must be admitted that there is no real skiing (winter) idyll without a completely or at least partially snow-covered landscape, otherwise everything looks a bit silly. An even much worse case is the now former ski resort in Gresovščak in Prlekija, built sometime in the 70s. Once it offered cheap good skiing for locals (similar to Sviščaki), today it hasn't operated for a long time. You might find it strange that I'm comparing snow conditions in Prlekija and Bohinj, but it could happen in the near future. If we don't curb climate changes, of course, which is unlikely.
A ski resort with a favorable future should therefore be built above 2000 meters according to European directives, such as only Kanin in our country. We also have some higher-lying ski resorts, with favorable snow conditions for today (Krvavec, Kranjska Gora, Rogla, Velika Planina etc.), which, as said, have no future. If I had the money the investor has, it wouldn't even occur to me to spend it on a ski resort below 2000 meters.

-in the immediate and also indirect vicinity of the emerging ski resort there are already some good ski resorts (Vogel, Pokljuka, Soriska planina..), not to mention Kobla, the shame of our country. So there should be two, three ski resorts almost directly next to each other, with the only difference that one failed (Kobla) and the other is newly created (2864), one is fighting off competition (Vogel). HORROR!!!!eek

So I firmly oppose this ski resort and I'm interested in your opinion too.
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capraibex26. 03. 2013 17:50:47
If I understand correctly, the new ski resort will be connected to Soriska planina, Kobla. They have funds, but no consent from forest owners. I agree that the problem is already in the altitude of the ski resort; at least practice shows the failure of lower-lying ones. In the Soriska planina area there are also historical remains, fortifications, bunkers. Positive sides: new jobs, greater place recognition.
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Holcar226. 03. 2013 18:17:26
The positive sides in no way outweigh the negatives; by the way, Bohinj is already very recognizable worldwide.
Besides, it already has many sports facilities!
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ljubitelj gora26. 03. 2013 18:33:05
Then the state will rescue this ski resort again. What about the current ski resorts that are failing? No one maintains them.
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Holcar226. 03. 2013 18:33:48
Just read this article; most likely there is a real connection between the "supposed" ski resort and the Park Hotel with no guests.
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viharnik26. 03. 2013 19:10:54
Weather forecasts for winters and summers fail even in good long-term weather centers. Weather is a dynamic phenomenon, a sum of many factors that man will never fully grasp, let alone put 100% on weather maps. Somewhere I also heard from the latest expert findings that even glacier melting does not affect the amount of snowfall and cold. Regarding project 2864, I think that if it has come this far with everything, it should be realized for the benefit of Bohinj tourism and Slovenia overall. As a ski country, except for Pohorje, we really cannot offer foreigners any larger ski area. Those few m² of cut spruces, Lip Bled will somehow turn into money with wooden products like windows, doors etc. Around Kobla, nature is already degraded with pistes that are now overgrowing and serve only for dog sledding. In every thing, something is always sacrificed so that something new can be born; in this case, better working conditions and centralization of services in the Bohinj municipality, increase of foreigners, operation of hotel industry and especially possibilities for development of other diverse sports and offers, not just winter skiing, as is self-evident in larger posh centers in France, Switzerland, Austria. But this Gorenjska world is quite closed in on itself and I fear that with development it will remain only at the wooden spoon if it continues like this. Finally, Slovenia also has a fully protected and pristine Triglav park, which in size is quite sufficient for our small country, of course with environmental awareness to preserve the other natural parts of our land.
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green26. 03. 2013 19:48:02
I am decidedly AGAINST ski resort 2864!!!! This would be a REALLY TOO BIG intervention in nature. We have enough other ski resorts around, we don't need to make new ones. Even those we have don't operate due to green winters or lack of funds.
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viharnik26. 03. 2013 20:03:17
This intervention is so minimal in the global sense of how man exploits and pollutes the earth. I mean oil refineries, natural gas, general pollution with CO, freons, chemical substances, radioactive elements, production and use of weapons, light pollution, industrial pollution in factories producing plastic, carbon, non-recycled waste, pesticides in soil, disruption of the animal regenerative cycle and finally non-negligible spiritual pollution in people's mindset as conductors of cosmic energy to earth, which absorbs it via us in the form of vibrations (similar to our hair on the head) and which must self-purify and balance with the cosmos in case of bad vibrations. And then we have volcanoes, tsunamis, winds and all possible things and we wonder why. Answer: Because of ourselves!.
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slamca26. 03. 2013 20:14:28
Personally, I am also against. If we look at how "well" our skiing stands, it is a completely unnecessary investment. They are in the red year after year, so it would be better, if anything, to renovate the old facilities on Kobla. As far as I know, this "2864" ski resort is just a few meters away from the current one. Maybe this time too "money laundering" is in play.
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viharnik26. 03. 2013 20:24:56
Green and slamca, ask yourselves why abroad everything runs smoothly, they make profits, can finance themselves consensually. Because there for every tourist place there is a common fund into which everyone contributes something, they appear together with diverse offer and everyone strives for the benefit of society and are not envious and don't put sticks under each other's feet, like only here.
A special case is our Kanin, ironically none of the Kanin owners can muster those rich 50 mil € for starting the flagship above Bovec. None of them wants to give from their own pocket, although they could give five times not once and nicely wait for state aid, the valley is declining. That's how it is here, elsewhere abroad it's already in people's basic awareness and tradition towards transparent management and attitude to tourists quite different.
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klemen8526. 03. 2013 23:45:59
Principally I have nothing against the development of such a ski resort, but let's admit what every educated investor surely knows - namely, that our alpine fringe compared to some other locations has no (market) potential.

In the concrete case, however, I think it's what is hinted at also in the article to which the link is in one of the previous posts… This is all "larifari", a show with the purpose for Čokl to delay as much as possible the inevitable – company bankruptcy.
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Okmodko27. 03. 2013 00:45:22
Profit, profit, profit, that's all in your heads, people. What if we build everything that's in the plans? Profit will be big, but in a couple of years we'll need even bigger profit because stagnation in the economy leads to collapse. So we'll have to build more and more and more and more and more... Then what? Collapse logically.
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GregorC27. 03. 2013 09:39:04
I think that in this project too much emphasis is placed on it being a ski resort. Here things would actually happen all year round and not depend solely on winter. And that's the biggest problem of most Slovenian ski resorts, that they don't focus on summer tourism as well. For example Krvavec, Gora and Rogla already note that summer revenue is actually higher than winter.
I definitely support such projects, because in Slovenia tourism is certainly the sector with the greatest potential and reserve in our fragmented economy. Especially in an environment like Gorenjska. And given that there are already some ski resorts in the area, the biggest gain would be joint cooperation (although harder in Slovenia) and promotion.
As for interventions in nature, I think it won't be any bigger than what happens in many places already and without any plan.
But that's how it is here. In everything only the bad is seen. If we don't invest in anything, we won't have anything. And then we wonder why we're where we are.
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Alfista27. 03. 2013 15:37:07
Maybe this story is just for pumping possible EU funds like it allegedly went for the water park and hotel.
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Gora Trma27. 03. 2013 15:41:31
Anya, we have influence on everything and that's why we debate about it, since every debate affects conscience, awareness or people's behavior about a topic. This topic is welcome for that reason too.

The accounts of MPM ENGINEERING d.o.o. are blocked from early December 2012 until today (source 1: www.ajpes.si, source 2: www.bizi.si).

In the article from Delo newspaper, for which a link is posted in one of the above posts and dated 31.01.2013, Mr. Boštjan Čokl, the company owner, stated that they would be unblocked in two weeks.

Hmm, wasn't that a month and a half ago? Does anyone believe him?

QUESTION: Does anyone have a source on LEITNER company projects, which is supposed to be Čokl's partner. Somewhere it was possible to read that they had a similar project in France, which they messed up. I'm interested what happened, where to read about it, so we don't judge without arguments.
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Holcar227. 03. 2013 17:53:16
This project is by no means just a minor intervention in nature, as some speculate. The amount of felled forest is supposed to be somewhere between 30 and 35 thousand cubic meterseek, and as someone wrote, that one more intervention in nature won't hurt because there are already many, I must say they should be ashamed of such an attitude towards nature.
I quote:
"This intervention is so minimal if viewed globally (..) and finally negligible spiritual pollution in people's mindset as conductors of cosmic energy to earth, which through us in the form of vibrations the earth also absorbs (similar to our hair on the head) and in case of bad vibrations must purify itself and balance with the cosmos..."

I don't say there's no truth in it, but it's necessary to emphasize that Slovenia is a small country with sensitive, already somewhat polluted environment in places (Zasavje etc.). But... simultaneous mentioning of those space-alternative khm..eek THINGS in my opinion has nothing to do with the topic title. No hard feelings viharnik, I know you're a seeker, but I simply can't agree with you. Implementation of such a project would at best visually spoil Bohinj, and even such a case would be eek

all this wouldn't even appear at once and overgrow again and cover the earth's wounds. Imagine the torn ridge of Peči, from the valley bottom to the top, around which machines would roar day after day, before setting up all those Leitners the already overcrowded and parked Bohinj space would be heavily burdened. In direct proximity of the largest place in the valley, Boh. Bistrica. Even if those 30 mil cubic meters went to Lip Bled or wherever, such an intervention in nature would be an irreversible act that we would regret for a long time.mrk pogledjezen

P.S.: @viharnik: wood quantity is measured in cubic meters, not square! And read how much there is! It's not just some SQUARES but more than 30 thousand cubic meters!

http://petrinenovice.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/vse-je-odvisno-od-lastnikov-zemljisc/
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urbancek27. 03. 2013 18:25:38
Regarding Kanin, I think a new cable car needs to be built, which costs a bit more than 50,000€zavijanje z očmi. Maybe even some new concept with shorter travel time (gondola?). I doubt that if they just "patched" it a bit, people would rush there... This disaster has triggered distrust in the safety of the existing infrastructure... Just the emergence of this doubt is enough to radically change the thing. Don't forget that they luckily got away with it anyway. What if there had been fatalities then?eek Best regards!
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viharnik27. 03. 2013 18:30:35
For me it's completely irrelevant if project 2864 is done or not, because I will never ski on groomed ski resorts again. The Bohinj municipality will just have to weigh what opens up better long-term in tourism, because only with it can they prosper there. As already said, something always has to be sacrificed too, and when they cut Pokljuka everyone doesn't care. Of course m2 I meant in a smaller sense, since every winter I use 3-4 m3 of firewood at home for winter. However, one must realize that such opportunities as are offered from abroad for the benefit of our tourism will never return again, those forests Slovenia will still have enough, since in between it also reforests, thins and not just cuts. Even if they do logging above Boh. Bistrica, there will still be enough wood along the pistes, as on Rogla, Bjelašnica. But Slovenia is really very difficult with a heavy people and here even the one who has the chance to pull the cart forward is suppressed and nipped in the bud. This didn't come just from my mouth, but also from our border resident from Germany who saw what happens here.
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Holcar227. 03. 2013 18:33:50
From @gore trme's post it's evident that the Leitner company already messed something up once.
Anyway, Kanin is priceless for us because of its altitude and we can't afford to lose it, whatever happens.
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Holcar227. 03. 2013 18:45:09
you're right, viharnik, I also rarely ski on groomed ski resorts, I prefer touring, but the amount of felled timber will be HUGE!!!jezenmrk pogledeekzmedenzavijanje z očmieekeekjezenmrk pogledeek
And no one can get around the fact that the new ski resort would be completely unnecessary competition to the existing ones, which already have problems (hotel at the corner etc.)
the whole thing is just a professional conspiracy by Boštjan Čokl to get himself and his hotel out of trouble, that must be clear to everyone who read the articles mentioned on the previous page. his counterarguments are completely unfounded. jezen
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viharnik27. 03. 2013 18:54:12
Or a magnet for skiers. Actually everything is within a good 10km distance and every foreigner will gladly jump to enjoy the high-alpine Vogel. As for hotels in Bohinj, the problem is that many hotels were bought by private individuals who manage them poorly and have no sense for any tourism. But among us, the much-praised hospitality "Slovenia is people" still hasn't entered consciousness, because most innkeepers only calculate how to earn, that's their first note, the second most important how the guest is and if he will gladly return, that's a Spanish village. So at the end of the season many close the building early to the guest with the excuse that there are no people and it's not worth continuing to operate. Abroad, just now when touring skiing is at its peak, huts open from the end of March to the beginning of May, then close until the main season in June, so for one month.
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