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Bohinj 2864

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VanSims28. 03. 2013 20:54:52
Fantastic ski resort in Bohinj. Yes, of course right away! Progress, tourists, earnings. Whoever protests - backward, who doesn't want progress, earnings, prosperity! Destroying nature? So what!

Via ferratas in high mountains? No way! The one who is for it is a nature destroyer, wants everything commercialized, tourist paradise in the hills, every hut its own amusement park, yeah we shouldn't just look at money,...

Where's the logic? In the fact that the Slovenian still has a lobotomy on their own thinking from former times and submits to someone who is supposedly an authority in some field.

In the first case to media, which in the name of the one who will profit from it (thank God I have nothing against) declare its usefulness for all of us.

In the second case PZS, under the influence of strong alpinist lobby, who would preferably have no metal in the mountains and complains how many routes one via ferrata takes away, but there are so many routes just in Slovenia that in a lifetime with best will you can't climb them all

Adds its own socialist orientation towards big clumsy projects (of course they are needed too but not almost exclusively) instead of small private initiative economy. That's also one of the causes of today's crisis. Why not rather some smaller ski resorts e.g. in places that lag far behind Bohinj in development?

P.S.: To be clear, I completely don't care about this ski resort, because of it I won't have higher or lower salary if it's there or not. Slovenia is a small country, borders are close both for ski resorts and via ferratas.
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Holcar230. 03. 2013 22:54:11
I won't argue with you anymore because you're incorrigible. By good ski resorts I meant mainly those already in Bohinj that more or less work fine and I think there's really no need for new ones when there are already four in the valley. About inflating, a lot could be said, look how all you supporters of this nonsense have written long texts and in what flowers you express yourselves.
Last time I'll list my reasons against:
-more than 30000 cubic meters of felled forest

-with upcoming climate changes the ski resort has no real future (starting point at 500m!)

-by oversaturation I meant mainly that there would be 4 ski resorts on 15 km, which seems simply too much to me. TNP should be a protected nature area, not a mountain amusement park.

In the end I'd say that all of you who are inflating here besides me, you are all laymen or at least not participating in this project. So you don't have tremendous knowledge in this field.
Really great principle that nature can absorb a fucking lot. We'll go far with that. Don't forget we're talking about TNP.
You all are really damn, I don't know, ignorant, stupid or something, that you don't understand how absurd it would be to build another ski resort in Bohinj so there would be 4 on 15km length on one single mountain ridge. In a national park, a mere 83 hectares.
Experts predict snow amount will at least halve in next 50 years. And it will increase according to inverse proportion principle.
I agree more jobs, more recognition would be welcome. But not in this direction. We could build e.g. downhill tracks, summer toboggan run or something similar. The ski resorts we have will suffice to some point when there's no more snow. When that will be, nobody knows yet. I'm not backward and don't oppose progress, just saying it would be senseless to build a new one with upcoming climate changes. Let's rather use that money to renovate the decaying hotel on Vogel. Would 2864 be built if there wasn't Hotel Park and the Čokls who want to pull themselves and it out of the shit? That's praiseworthy of course and probably I'd want to do something too, whatever would help. But with your scribbling (not that anyone takes it seriously) you're giving water to the Čokls' mill and their family's benefit, while not wanting to see completely reasonable reasons I list. I won't do that anymore because I've despaired of the constructiveness of this debate which has already "Slovenianized" a while ago.

When the thing degenerates, luckily we'll be old and won't have strength for further quarrels.
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BorisM31. 03. 2013 01:26:57
First look where the TNP border is, Bohinjska Bistrica is outside, on the ridge it starts only at Črna Prst.

Can you name at least one good ski resort around there. All are outdated, practically on the verge of usability. It's really strange they still give them permission to operate.

Vogel besides nature can't give anything else, slopes too narrow and short. Completely unsuitable for today's skiing technique.
Kobla has collapsed, as last said part of the ski resort would go there too.
Sorica is anyway planned to connect to the new ski resort.
And the new ski resort should live also in summer (bikepark). Besides, structurally it's ok that ski resort and hotel are connected. The only ski resort here that makes plus is Rogla and that's because they have Terme Zreče behind. That's also the model worldwide, because cable cars alone can't survive.

And as it looks the Čokls bother you a lot, if you were even a little entrepreneur you'd know that nowadays it's one hell to pull yourself out of shit. If he has money let him do, if not successful spruces will grow again in 20 years. Come on tell, why would Čokl who already has a hotel go renovate another on a decaying ski resort. Two minuses make plus only in math, unfortunately not in business.


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janna31. 03. 2013 01:35:24
BorisM, I very much agree with what you wrote cool
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viharnik31. 03. 2013 07:28:16
Problem is that the non-signers for project start allegedly are only two owners of existing old cable car systems Kobla and a catering facility, all others agree to construction. They alone will never be able to renovate the cable cars, let alone market them with demanding modern tourism. If project 2864 is realized, they too would benefit in activity boost, since nothing exists far around if the 2864 ski system isn't built and put into operation.
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Holcar231. 03. 2013 11:19:58
Can you read?
I wrote: good ski resorts = those that more or less work fine.
So what if it's a bit outside the park? The environment is the same. The important thing is the message: that nature can absorb a fucking lot. That's your principle. Even if you didn't express it, it could be read from your comments.
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Holcar231. 03. 2013 11:27:55
With the Čokls, the thing is that this ski resort wouldn't exist without the Hotel Park and the Čokls. As I wrote, it's understandable that they try to save the hotel. With that money, it would be better to renovate the hotel on Vogel. But it's understandable why not.
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CarpeDiem24731. 03. 2013 11:44:04
I also notice a distinctly hostile way of writing towards these Čokls, who I actually don't even know, nor am I particularly interested in. Slovenians (probably not all) are quite an envious nation and obviously begrudge success to their fellow man, catastrophe!
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Holcar231. 03. 2013 11:53:28
Well, I'm saying I understand them. I myself would do something similar. But it needs to be emphasized that this project wouldn't exist without them and that money would be better spent on the hotel at Vogel!
At least in my opinion. Now hang onto my opinion and tear me apart!
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FLEKSARCA31. 03. 2013 12:19:17
Why do I have the feeling that LG is getting serious competitionzavijanje z očmi?
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Holcar231. 03. 2013 12:21:13
I don't care what opinion you'll have about me, because thank God no one actually knows me and I mostly use the site to check conditions in the mountains.
Expressing one's opinion isn't forbidden, I suppose.
If you don't want to see the completely obvious reasons I'm stating, I'd rather stopnasmeh
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GregorC31. 03. 2013 12:48:58
Vogel can only gain from this project. The aim is to introduce a unified ticket and promotion. They're also interested in this project at Soriska Planina. The fact is, more offerings bring more guests. And what better to offer a guest than skiing on Vogel one day, Bohinj 2864 the next, etc. Interestingly, abroad they don't have such problems, even though practically every village has its own ski resort. Unlike in Slovenia, they can cooperate and everyone benefits. Here we prefer to throw logs under each other's feet and then gloat over failures.
And one more thing. At Vogel, they practically have their hands tied for any investments (new lifts, expanding slopes,...) precisely because of its location in TNP. But that's supposed to change now.
It's really funny to me how we're against any investment here. It would be similar if this were done anywhere else in Slovenia.
Karahawk, finally look at the bigger picture once and you'll see it's a much bigger project than just a ski resort. If it's a green winter, the bike park and other summer offerings will operate longer. The important thing is that the facilities operate all year round, not just 4 months in winter. Interestingly, everyone here hangs only on the ski resort. And that the ski resort is because of the hotel and vice versa is completely logical. The two go hand in hand. And the current hotel problem is precisely the lack of offerings for guests.
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Trobec31. 03. 2013 14:51:49
Oh, so much envy and spitefulness. Typically Slovenian. Someone presents a business idea, and it has to be nipped in the bud so it doesn't succeed. Of course, every such project needs to weigh all impacts on the environment, but not to be a priori against it.

Arguments that this will be competition to Vogel and other resorts that aren't doing so well currently are ridiculous. Now we need to limit healthy competition so that those who do poorly can continue doing poorly?

I also work a bit in tourism and know several cases where envy and neighbors' spite killed many good ideas. I'll give the village fair in Štanjel as an example. In the times when the fair was running best (lately it's slowed down a bit), some super-intelligent people started claiming that the stalls spoil the village image and drive away tourists. And how is the village supposed to benefit from tourists if not from the money they spend in the village (largely at stalls with local produce, home crafts, and souvenirs)?
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Holcar22. 04. 2013 22:26:35
To end this fruitless debate.
If something good comes out of this project, I'll consider among other things whether someone renovates that thing on top of Vogel called a hotel.
If that happens, I'll admit defeat. Before that, no!jezen
Say what you want.
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Alfista3. 04. 2013 10:54:46
... and such people would go for new investments when they can't even run existing companies.
Slovenia's story of the last 20 years that didn't work out.
Maybe someone needs to earn a position again, like with the first project.
With this I'm done.
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Becar3. 04. 2013 11:06:49
@MajaO

"Zafuran project" means a poorly realized project that doesn't bring financial gain. It's quite simple, without unnecessary complication.

Everything else you list (poor setup, poor management etc.) is the cause of the messed-up project.
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Zebdi3. 04. 2013 11:37:04
@MajaO: AJPES says the same person has ownership share in both companies.
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VanSims3. 04. 2013 12:09:46
Capitalism is really quite OK. And people who see their own interests in it aren't the problem. Capitalist society is based on asserting each individual's own interests. These are of course primarily material. That's the point of capitalism too. Because if everyone works and has to strive for themselves, society will benefit, unlike socialism where you work for some vague social goals or someone else's interests or 'work or not - the pay is the same'.

>>>fulfilling one's life by harming others or wishing bad on others.

That's something else entirely and has nothing to do with capitalism. That's why we're where we are. Especially because of other things that have nothing to do with capitalism, so it's complete nonsense to blame capitalism for the crisis. We're guilty because we didn't act according to its laws. Yes, we! Not just the state, tycoons,... Every individual with their behavior, consumer habits, living at others' expense, not taking responsibility,...

I don't know Čoklov, nor the project in detail. Still, I wonder again: big ski resort yes, some via ferratas in high mountains with which someone could also earn - no? Why? In both cases it's capitalists, if someone has so much against them (in the ski resort case even bigger ones), environmental issues,...

So no one thinks that abroad there are no problems with people who by all means obstruct and prevent projects or someone doing something good.

Example: Konigsjodler via ferrata in Austria, which the year before last barely got permission for another 10 years after environmentalists raised such a fuss during its construction that it's a miracle it even started 'operating'.

And an even more drastic example: Tauern Tunnel! In the 70s it was built as single-tube. In the 90s they wanted to add a second tube. Environmentalists prevented the project, again making a huge fuss as if it would destroy the environment (as if the tunnel itself doesn't, and according to them everything should go over the pass and pollute there with all the traffic jams, detours, braking, noise,...)

And then that accident with about 10 dead happened. Did any of those eco-hysterics feel responsible? I doubt it! Let them now go preach environmentalism to the victims' relatives or those permanently affected, if they dare.
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Becar3. 04. 2013 12:11:54
Interesting, how some of you are inclined to this project that would actually greatly intervene in nature, as if someone promised you something. When we once talked about the closed road to Tamar, most of you moralized how fine it is that it's closed.

So, if a poor guy wants to drive to Tamar it's a sin, but if an entrepreneur in Bohinj builds a ski resort it's all ok.
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jax3. 04. 2013 12:36:11
Becar
3.4.2013 Interesting, how some of you are inclined to this project that would actually greatly intervene in nature, as if someone promised you something. When we once talked about the closed road to Tamar, most of you moralized how fine it is that it's closed.

So, if a poor guy wants to drive to Tamar it's a sin, but if an entrepreneur in Bohinj builds a ski resort it's all ok.

I don't know about the others, but as far as I'm concerned, I have a clear conscience and a consistent stance on this ... You can go check the old comments.
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