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| urbancek8. 09. 2011 12:21:37 |
@LidijaJesih: The box could still be opened 3 weeks ago...best regards!
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| bari8. 09. 2011 20:03:25 |
Sure to you, clod! 
You must have in mind gentle women's hands... 
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| LidijaJesih8. 09. 2011 20:12:04 |
 Yeah thanks @bari. But it's true, 3 weeks ago Hanzova was still open and passable
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| zajlar8. 09. 2011 21:05:22 |
Hello all good people, mountain lovers!
The dust from the rockfall has settled, thoughts are calmer. First an old Chinese wisdom: To do something that would please three people is an art that no one has mastered to this day. Everything in life is relative and subjectively experienced! In more demanding situations, it always shows what stuff someone is made of. Every decision for risk is completely individual! And at the scene itself, it's always different in reality than in later discussions of non-participants.
A word on irresponsible behavior at the end.
On Saturday there was a small note on the board for Hanzova (approx 1800 m) saying Hanzova is IMPASSABLE. The decision to attempt the crossing was spontaneous and backed by long years of mountaineering experience of most in that group. Current (new) conditions then influenced the changed course of the tour just below the saddle.
I just want to highlight two things:
- to accuse AS of irresponsible behavior after all those long years of mountaineering mileage and extreme ascents means putting him in the same basket as someone who climbs a few easy peaks in summer. The "risk" threshold for both is probably justifiably very different.
- "mountaineering" was accused of looking to Europe, which in this case has nothing to do with us. Anyone who even occasionally visits online mountaineering portals probably knows well who resides at that address. Maybe the content of all those diverse tours in his archive counts for something. Whoever knows him personally knows that safety is always first with him! With the mention of Europe, he just wanted to point out that (certainly in Austria and Germany) the ZPP manager after the early morning rockfall at the start (parking lot), nearby mountain hut and on the entry part under the wall until midday would just put up visible warnings about CLOSED path. At least on the Antenna 3 channel it would be repeated several times as a warning to hikers planning this tour.
When my mountaineering colleague "reprimanded" me, I asked him an interesting question: "What if he was in the company of Viki Grošelj?" And the answer, something like that with such mountaineering capacity they would easily manage something much "harder"!
Finally, thoughts on (ir)responsible action. Where would humanity be today if we always acted only prudently, in accordance with existing rules and never risked anything. Where to rank those masses of "hikers" who go to ZPP without helmet and self-belay kit?
Everything is relative! For me, more irresponsible is the picture in the diary with two children playfully playing with the home pet-python. And the cover of an important monthly before summer showing a happy trio in a canoe: grandpa (who by the paddle hold has no clue about paddling) and two grandchildren - all three on water without life jackets!
Nice evening to all! And safe steps on our wonderful mountains!
And don't burden everyone with possible renewed "polemic"! In individual communication we can confront arguments. Surely only they count?
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| Kozorog8. 09. 2011 22:12:39 |
Interesting views "zajlar" and justifying the stupidity of some! We can discuss on ZS too, but I think your views mixing marked mountain paths and "extreme" alpinism are at odds with all logic!
If Viki wasn't a smart guy, he wouldn't be with us today, so don't highlight these things!
Every average hiker knows that if a rockfall happens, the site can calm not just days but even months. So don't justify the stupidity of those who (did you???) foolishly went on that path and endangered their lives and possible rescuers' lives if rescue was needed. Have you ever wondered what would happen if rocks and stones fell on someone's head from the group? Who would be co-responsible and who would carry the burden of that decision to the end of life? You know, easy to be smart because luckily nothing happened to anyone!
So I on your place wouldn't moralize too much and justify foolish action. And I don't understand at all how you can arguedly justify that group's actions when obviously seconds decided and the first one they got across (and publicly boast about it) would get everything on his head??? Helloooo!!! And AS experiences don't justify what they did. Besides we're on a mountaineering portal and comparisons with stupid play with python etc... don't fit here.
We can clear it calmly on ZS... but I tell all now that I'm against such foolish and unthought actions of anyone!!! As said, it endangers not only oneself but all others! If someday it's accepted to rescue only when conditions 100% allow (even after couple months) then dear hikers please, you're adults and if you can't care for yourselves, no one can help except a bit of luck that comes or not!
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| sin narave9. 09. 2011 03:05:28 |
Damn you guys. Up here you're arguing about some hikers. Look, everyone is old enough and knows what they're doing. But true some go to mountains unprepared and unequipped. That's why our respected mountain rescuers have a lot of work. But even the best can have something unpleasant happen. That's how it is. Best is to listen to inner voice that leads each on own path.
Then other topics open that have nothing to do with the first, etc. Write up here what the forum conditions are for. And write what nice you experienced, not argue over each other. True everyone has own opinion. Forum guys should meet once in hills and debate hot issues then descent and party.
Nice regards all and GOOD LUCK IN THE MOUNTAINS!!!!
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| VanSims9. 09. 2011 09:23:15 |
If I may just remark:
Regarding irresponsibility I fully agree with Kozorog.
But regarding marking closed path I agree with zajlar. Small note (easily overlooked) stuck with scotch on the board! If work of some hiker who jumped in instead of responsible PD, of course hats off, but if official PD notice then... No comment.
OK takes a day two to bring notice up and mount but meanwhile could stick decent paper and write with marker (also in English) and properly paste from all sides.
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| Sam.volk9. 09. 2011 10:09:29 |
At Koča na Gozdu there is warning sign, what more do you want. Lp
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| BT889. 09. 2011 10:23:18 |
OK if you're a good alpinist you can climb there with a bit of rope and a peg about 200 m
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| kaveljc9. 09. 2011 10:46:28 |
BT88 yeah you can climb many places but here the problem is stuff can fall on your head - more like a helmet than some innocent pebble things haven't settled yet as I heard
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| JusAvgustin9. 09. 2011 15:37:11 |
the bypass is "arranged" over the devil's pillar...
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| heinz9. 09. 2011 19:47:59 |
Today no one made it up via Hanzova.., at least not midday when I approached the summit (via Slovenska of course). Descent with a nice mountaineer from Frankfurt. Weather definitely almost kitschy.
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| m&m10. 09. 2011 20:12:25 |
Today my colleague and I went to the summit via Kopiščarjeva through the front window, descended through the back window via Jubilee path. One also came up Hanzova path, said with some improvisation you can cross the collapse spot.
I'd mention also to be careful on Kopiščarjeva path as marks have completely faded. Especially in fog.
Protections on both paths in satisfactory condition. Hardest part of the whole route is descent from back window. There you need to trust yourself and the seemingly wobbly stone. Jubilee path not for vertigo sufferers.
Regards, M
P.S. No pics because camera had empty batteries 
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| Tinca510. 09. 2011 20:39:06 |
Well, I wasn't the only one with empty batteriesNice tour, just crowded today. Regards
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| Irina10. 09. 2011 22:11:40 |
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| Rakun16. 09. 2011 21:29:30 |
I'll post some pics of Jubilee path from last week ...
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| Stefano23. 09. 2011 20:21:15 |
On 10 September I and Ciccio went via Kopiščarjeva.
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| nata241. 10. 2011 20:22:06 |
Today Prisank was finally on the agenda. In the morning I didn't feel like driving to Vršič, and the weather was for something longer. So I went to Vrata. First through Sovatna to Kriški podi and to Planja saddle. Then long descent towards Vršič to Škrbina and from there through Zadnje okno to Prisank summit. Nothing special on the way, all protections ok, just be careful as everywhere. Back I returned the same way, down and up to Kriški podi. So not all the same way, back via Bovški vrtac and past bivouac 4. Views were phenomenal, rarely such weather. Hope tomorrow again
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