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| GregorC26. 07. 2019 11:33:55 |
The road to Vrata is a state road, so regarding the asphalt go nicely to Ljubljana to the roads directorate. Also TNP is a state institution, despite seat in Bled, which is a shame that the seat is not in TNP.
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| jax26. 07. 2019 14:08:34 |
NYG
26.7.2019 We have the TNP Act, which states that parking is prohibited in the natural environment.
Designated parking lots were made by humans, so they do not fall under the natural environment.
The road also does not fall under the natural environment, the area a few meters along the edges of the roadway still belongs to it. To summarize: the driver doesn't need to worry at all about the question of what the legal regulation of the area through which the road passes is. All he needs to know is: parking along the edges of the roadway is allowed as long as: a) it does not obstruct traffic, and b) it is not prohibited by a traffic sign. In short, parking there must be allowed, unless there is some traffic sign on the road to Vrata prohibiting it (I don't remember, e.g. in Bohinj there are such signs). This is the Road Traffic Rules, which the national park regulation cannot suspend in any way.
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| VanSims26. 07. 2019 14:22:24 |
@jax:
What is natural environment and what isn't, is a question. A bivouac is built in natural environment and someone who slept in it, did they sleep in natural environment or not?
Also what the legal regulation of the area is, somehow it's known it's a national park, abroad they have even stricter rules in some places, very limited car access, ban on dogs (with us only on a leash)...
If we disregard that, in some rule of law your argumentation might work at the misdemeanor court if you appealed, in our crooked judiciary that always protects the stronger one, questionable.
Further question is, how is this fine written in the TNP Act. Especially if it says something like: regardless of this and that article, this and that paragraph of the Road Traffic Act, parking along the road in the TNP area is prohibited...
Of course in a rule of law one is at least informed with instructions on panels at the park entrance. Have the Bohinj people done that now? Well then they made one step from the Balkans towards Europe, because as far as I know they didn't have it before.
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| 5Xum26. 07. 2019 15:14:33 |
In a normal country people don't need special signs to tell them that you just don't park everywhere in national parks.
In our social poverty we have poor folks with new Audis who apparently can't afford a few euros for all-day parking at a designated parking lot without another loan.
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| jax26. 07. 2019 15:57:06 |
No, no. In a normal country it can't happen that one even debates whether something in traffic is allowed or not. Prohibitions must be clearly marked and if not, general road traffic rules apply. National park or not.
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| VanSims26. 07. 2019 15:58:15 |
Signs with Do's and Don'ts are found abroad in many places at park entrances and also at many points inside. Of course, there's no need for a special sign for parking but together with other rules.
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| GregorC26. 07. 2019 18:30:50 |
They are also here with us... Just saying
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| rrakus26. 07. 2019 19:17:02 |
In TNP they probably have their own rules, I last summer came from Styria to the parking lot around 1 a.m. and planned just to nap a bit until 3:30 when I planned to go on the trail, but a TNP warden came and started hassling me that I can't sleep in the car, so after negotiating and explaining that I'm from far away and have to start almost in the middle of the night to reach the starting point on time, I rather moved the car a couple km lower along the road, thinking he won't bother me there, but the guy on the way back when returning to Mojstrana slapped me with a fine for improper parking (100€), although two days later when I returned I saw countless cars parked along the road with no fines..., and I didn't obstruct anyone and parked there only overnight, in the morning I went to the parking anyway and paid the fee. They just make up rules as they like...
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| pohodnik1126. 07. 2019 19:45:20 |
Better someone from TNP after all these years of warnings about what's happening around bivouacs goes in summer just to bivouac 4 and he'll earn his full yearly salary and more would be left... oh I forgot he has to go on foot and doesn't need to earn his salary... that's why it's already too big a bite for such instant inspectors or wardens...
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| MitjaBelak26. 07. 2019 20:52:24 |
Just adding. This is Slovenia, land of parish sheriffs and their deputies who each imagine their own law their way. They work little, but know how to pontificate and especially collect fines. Could add more, but that might be hate speech already. In short, everyone fend for themselves.
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| darinka426. 07. 2019 21:09:22 |
In August, that's what they said at the TIC, they are supposed to close traffic for cars at the weekend. A bus is supposed to run. Probably not too early. To the Vrata Valley.
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| sirt127. 07. 2019 09:37:41 |
Laws (also TNP) are always above regulations (CPP)
TRIGLAV NATIONAL PARK ACT (ZTNP-1)
Article 13
(general protection regime in the national park)
(1) In the national park area it is prohibited:...
42. to park motor vehicles, recreational trailers or motor vehicles used for accommodation outside designated places;
http://www.pisrs.si/Pis.web/pregledPredpisa?id=ZAKO5487
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| Enka27. 07. 2019 11:40:46 |
Since the TNP law is a special law compared to the CPP law, the regime prescribed by the TNP law applies to this area.
Due to the provision cited by sirt1, in TNP no special sign prohibiting parking is needed to write you a fine.
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| pohodnik1127. 07. 2019 14:51:46 |
The biggest problem is that TNP is run by people who have no idea. The first thing they should clarify is how to bring beauty closer to people, how to reduce impact - burdening nature by humans and technology etc... If we look just at the road to Vrata... if they asphalted it there wouldn't be every tree white (read dusty) within 30 meters around the road from the gravel road. That's nice and ecological, isn't it!!! Let those TNP people who sit at the top and don't feel like working just look at the Dolomites and their development which are under UNESCO protection... Not to mention preventing summer bivouacs of Czechs (on Czech portal you can even reserve time and place for bivouac!!) in mountain bivouacs and their camping everywhere (every average mountaineer knows what bivouacs are for!)... but they pick on one Slovenian mountaineer who parked where we all parked for decades...
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| darinka427. 07. 2019 15:43:18 |
I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. I think it was the year before last, when they weren't collecting 3.50 euros in Vrata Valley because they couldn't find a contractor. I came late from Škrlatica and at 22:00 the TNP supervisor came. With a vehicle. And shone a flashlight into every car to see if anyone was sleeping inside. Some were maybe resting and he pulled the guy out from the back seats. If that's the way, then I really don't know. He came to me too, I was just sitting in the vehicle and he chased me to sleep in the hut. And ran around the vehicle because he thought someone else was sleeping outside. Even though I told him I was alone. You don't get a pleasant feeling from all this. You can't even be in your own vehicle. To that one I think he wrote a fine. Probably similar this year too.
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| SamoK27. 07. 2019 16:03:21 |
To all who complain so much about conditions in Slovenia, I advise them to try what they can do arbitrarily in national parks, for example in the USA. Or in Switzerland.
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| redbull27. 07. 2019 16:11:55 |
Everyone should do as I did last weekend and everything will be super
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| jax27. 07. 2019 18:37:15 |
To all who complain so much about conditions in Slovenia, I advise them to try what they can do arbitrarily in national parks, for example in the USA. Or in Switzerland.
One important difference. There it's about protecting nature. And if that's the case, the regime and prohibitions will be clearly marked, so that the largest share of people will respect the regime and nature will be (most) protected, and fines won't actually be many. That's the point of everything.
With us, one has the feeling that the TNP leaders don't really care a damn about environmental protection, but they like to cash in. And if that's so, they'll make sure the regime is as obscure and ambiguous as possible. And then many will violate some articles even in good faith - and hop, how nice to write a ticket. It's superfluous to add that we haven't done anything for environmental protection, but quite a bit for filling budgets (depending on the misdemeanor authority, it can be state or municipal).
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| SamoK27. 07. 2019 18:59:39 |
I think, I don't know where in the world you walk, jax, but nature in Slovenia is much better preserved (and beautiful!) than almost anywhere else.
Slovenia is so nice and great overall that I really don't understand all this indignation. I think most are really just bothered that not everything is free.
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| Edko28. 07. 2019 17:55:05 |
Man, sometimes we went to Triglav for three days by bus from Ljubljana. First night we slept in Vrata-party, morning to Kredarica and to the top, slept at Dolič-party, morning at seven and to Bohinj to the bus, three days of fun. No problems with parking today when we go for ten hours, everything goes wrong for us. Those Czech huts-bivouacs the supervisors could visit a bit more often too.
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