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| Keko12. 07. 2013 16:54:06 |
Hanzova to Mala Mojstrovka. Very nicely secured, perfect for self-belay practice, at the end a bit of easy scrambling.
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| ljubitelj gora19. 07. 2013 19:57:15 |
"However, it does not recommend getting information from online forums, as the police find that more and more people, who don't know enough about it themselves, mislead others and put them in danger."
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| Daaam19. 07. 2013 20:08:10 |
...yeah what can we do...if society is dumbing us down.. even for some, talk with super duper rescuer/alpinist/mountain guide all in one, with 40 years experience in mountains, doesn't help not to do stupid stuff in mountains.. there's no breed of roses to cure that..even though Pehta claimed otherwise..
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| urbancek19. 07. 2013 22:03:44 |
Well, you just need the ability to "pick up" only credible info from web forums and from credible writers and combine it with maps and other mountaineering literature. Sometimes need to take extra gear even if someone on forum says you don't need it... You're responsible for your safety yourself not the web or forums. If you risk yourself and life on such info from forums you're to blame. Good luck!
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| ljubitelj gora19. 07. 2013 22:18:40 |
Again:
http://www.gore-ljudje.net/novosti/94748/
We must also warn about the increasing descriptions on various forums and social networks where individuals who are not experts in assessing hiking trails exaggerate in their descriptions (both positively and negatively). This misleads all mountain visitors trying to get info this way and puts them in great danger. We advise all who want to learn or get info about a certain mountain to get it from official guidebooks issued by the Alpine Association of Slovenia or from tourist associations.
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| Becar19. 07. 2013 22:57:29 |
I'd fully agree with both official posts on forums and add that I really miss order in this area. I'd for example give exclusion from forum and criminal complaint for endangering public safety to someone who says here e.g. Hanzova to Mojstrovka is kindergarten, or SVK on Furlanova is useless, or that you walk Furlanova in sneakers. These are statements that greatly deviate from guidebook tips. And I absolutely can't agree that then everyone is to blame themselves when they listen to such nonsense. Such statements (sports psychologist Mr. Vodeb would have a lot to say on showing off to others, playing tough guy) can cause serious injuries or death. Here I'd fully agree; beginners should read mainly guidebooks and not give much weight to forums where no selection of statements on safety is made.
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| lynx20. 07. 2013 09:51:12 |
You can't say only the writer is guilty. Forums are originally places for opinion exchange not wikipedia where opinions and unverified info are quickly deleted or marked "[citation needed]".
If users don't want to buy guidebooks this site is full of descriptions all with rough PZS classification rating and other data. Even before subjective descriptions.
This paternalistic trend worries me a bit. Like some Americanization; warnings everywhere even for most trivial things. A bit of common sense will do, info is more than enough available. If someone doesn't even minimally bother, they really are to blame themselves.
I read that sword swallowing, motorcycle juggling and barefoot hill climbing is trivial but it didn't tempt me at all to try, especially without further inquiries. I believe same for most.
Concrete improvement suggestion: before Print button a button/link to the mountain or route page the thread is about. So info easier accessible for those following only forum.
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| dprapr20. 07. 2013 10:13:32 |
My opinion is that forum descriptions are just supplement to official literature in this field. Interesting mainly because of photos of current conditions and sometimes interesting trip reports. Here you can find advice for some "route" not in official literature. Even more important, connections between like-minded are forged here, harder via official literature!
Believing 100% forum advice is stupidity and gullibility. Descriptions are always subjective and as we see even advice for a route varies greatly. It's up to individual how they act and which advice they follow!
Interesting what all some would report someone for on this forum!? Because of such I started avoiding marked paths and huts.
Best from Styria to all enjoying mountains!
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| Becar20. 07. 2013 10:37:29 |
The commented trips section has very good descriptions, IF WE DON'T READ WHAT FOLLOWS THE ROUTE afterwards. And that's what I value on this forum. All other subjective boastful comments on safety or difficulty are ballast of this forum. Since they can have catastrophic consequences we can't equate them with if someone says nice weather but actually had bad. Personally I give nothing to subjective comments or follow some reliable people on this forum for whom it was clear they don't brew stupidity.
If I ever gave difficulty rating here it was always in line with literature and experience that expert literature is very relevant. And those rescuer article comments surely weren't aimed at me. Some others can think about it....
Dprapr, stay on unmarked paths. Your personal level criticizing doesn't belong to marked paths. Plus if I remember right you advocated the path to Okrešelj excellent for 4 year olds. Maybe rescuers had you in mind.
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| Keko20. 07. 2013 11:47:00 |
If you can separate the wheat from the chaff on the forum, you can find quite useful information that can really help you plan a trip. This forum has helped me many times.
Since conditions in the mountains change quickly over time, information about current conditions (landslides, snowfields, damaged protections...) is very useful especially for the less experienced. Various debates and clashes of different opinions don't bother me as long as they stay within normal bounds.
It's quite right that moderators watch over the forum and occasionally delete some comments that stir up passions too much.
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| urbancek20. 07. 2013 17:00:09 |
@Becar: If someone tells you to jump into the abyss, will you just jump? Probably not...
And if someone writes that the path is child's play, will you just believe it without inquiring further?
And lynx is right about the patronizing trend... Besides, nowadays it's fashionable to shift responsibility to someone else (no one would ever be guilty of anything themselves). You're definitely guilty yourself if based on ONE subjective info from some forum you endanger your life (which by the way is yours not your neighbor's). No one forced you to look at that exact source, but you did, without digging deeper, so you're guilty yourself. It's clear to me that I bear responsibility exclusively for myself. But reading this, I see that it's not clear to many and some always want someone responsible for their actions, someone always behind their back... Regards!
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| korl20. 07. 2013 18:55:08 |
@urbancek: @Becar: If someone tells you to jump into the abyss, will you just jump? Probably not...
Of course he will, even with a run-up - but only if it's allowed by law! 
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| ljubitelj gora20. 07. 2013 21:42:57 |
On one of my past trips I slipped on a snowfield (ice below, thin layer of southern snow on top) and slid down the snowfield; luckily I had an ice axe with me. Who can I blame for that? 
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| Becar21. 07. 2013 08:50:45 |
Urbancek, it's not about shifting responsibility. It's that we're in the 21st century and maybe some hiker - beginner would expect reliable information even on the largest Slovenian mountain portal without separating "wheat from chaff" as someone said or without going to the library for guidebooks. I don't know how many young people go to the library today for some cooking recipe? Maybe someone the day before the trip just opens the portal and reads what's on the front page at that time. Not everyone is here every day, and I don't know why everyone should study the psyche of someone who posted nonsense. No time to read 10 sections and 5 hiking guides for every trip and separate wheat from chaff.
@korl: if it were by law, I'd rather throw you down than jump myself ok? Satisfied? 
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| Becar21. 07. 2013 09:27:11 |
Anyway, I'll stop on this topic here, I can only say that obviously there's something to it if it bothered the mountain rescuers. To avoid misunderstanding, I'm not talking only about this portal.
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| jax21. 07. 2013 12:33:42 |
I didn't intend to chime in, but now I have to, since some in this thread sent me straight to court.
First, I'd like to hear an explanation of what "we're in the 21st century" means. Was it allowed to express your opinion in the 20th century, but not in the 21st? Has political correctness finally prevailed? If so, that's definitely a reason for concern, as lynx nicely said.
Second: the thing with sneakers on Gradiška tour is downright funny. I never said it's right and smart to do that. But I did say that it happens. I didn't express my opinion at all, I just stated the fact that it happens. And now what, in the 21st century even truth can't be spoken? Nonsense.
Third - and maybe most importantly: if on the forum we could only summarize what's already in the guidebooks, then I don't see the reason for having it at all. And ultimately, most misunderstandings arose precisely because of shortcomings in official path classifications. After all, as far as I know, the definition of a path as "extremely difficult" is not an official PZS classification and was introduced on this portal on its own initiative (and rightly so). Precisely because about half of the paths in our hills are classified as "very difficult" according to official classification, opinion portals exist where people are interested in how difficult it really is. And yes, I said SVK is not needed on Gradiška tour. But please show me where I said it's not needed on Via della vita. Simply not all paths are the same, even if they might be by official classification. And that's why opinion pages are so useful. And that's why I'd be very concerned if out of some political correctness or legalism I couldn't express my opinion.
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| Becar21. 07. 2013 15:06:15 |
Question: What does it mean that we're in the 21st century?
Answer: That better selection/censorship is expected from WEB FORUMS especially regarding statements on safety. Why should someone go to a book to get correct information? Just like we no longer go to caves to see wall paintings except as tourist attraction.
Here it's no longer about free expression of opinion, because your free expression can endanger someone's life. On all more established domestic and foreign websites there are certain limits. Not everything that's your right is your right. For example right to housing, to work etc... You know how it is.
As I say, this is just my agreement with the official statement of mountain rescuers. Obviously on this portal some people's wisdom is greater than the greatest.
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| lynx21. 07. 2013 19:39:22 |
Blindly believing what's written on the Internet is a recipe for something worse than just problems on a trip.
(some take misleading to the level of art — like uncyclopedia)
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| Keko21. 07. 2013 22:26:06 |
@Becar I respect your thinking regarding censorship on this forum, but I'm afraid that if such censorship were implemented as you suggest, the forum would quickly die, as only a few users would remain, who would soon stop writing their comments too, as it would all become very boring and self-serving.
The forum is just a collection of various opinions and views, largely from non-experts, and is not the main source of information but just one of the sources that you have to know how to use and extract what you're looking for. I'm convinced it can be quite useful even in its current form.
That's just my thinking, which doesn't have to be correct.
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