Vrh Ljubeljščice (Triangel)
|
| Maja2515. 02. 2010 20:39:10 |
Half an hour before the accident THERE WAS NO sign prohibiting walking on the road or avalanche danger. The sign was put up only after the accident. The road itself was made because of constant bickering between lift operators and hikers and touring skiers, so we can climb to the Zelenica hut without obstructing skiers on the ski slope. Officially, it was also made for easier access for rescuers in case of an accident. This guy unfortunately did not trigger the avalanche himself, nor was he skiing off the groomed slope, but was just climbing to Zelenica on the groomed and snowcatted track. Shame, if he had a transceiver, they would have found him sooner...
|
|
|
|
| capraibex15. 02. 2010 20:52:28 |
It's a transport rescue path. All of us who used it as hikers, touring skiers, underestimated the danger in the form of the avalanche that released on Saturday.
|
|
|
|
| heinz15. 02. 2010 21:02:22 |
Igor, listen to this, what happened today with my (TWO!) comment that I posted on GORE/LJUDJE page this morning on the topic "Touring skier or irresponsible skier":
IT WAS SIMPLY DELETED!
Who is the sheriff there? What's going on and why??
I try to quote my own c.:
.....
No, unfortunately I can't paste it, as they deleted it from another article titled "Zelenica IS dangerous" at this moment too...
I wrote namely that in the Saturday case it was neither a "touring" nor an "irresponsible" skier or snowboarder, since he was walking on the groomed path that many others used..
Articles talked about participants using transceivers and gear that the boy, characterized as irresponsible skier (or even freeride skier) didn't have..
I asked if the snowcat operator had the mentioned gear, who groomed the surface intended for walking and of course skiing on this deadly dangerous surface where accidents have happened in the past..
Who is that person who sent the worker to snowcat the deadly dangerous surface, or path that we know was officially closed or some sign put up only after the Saturday accident?...
I added that neither the lift operators, nor the Municipality and GRS will be able to sweep this cruel fact under the rug and console the family of the deceased with words that in this case the only irresponsible was solely the snowboarder himself and no one else..
HRIBI.NET!- don't imitate strangely colored portals and please, don't delete this simple and to many of us known comment or - FACT!
|
|
|
|
| heinz15. 02. 2010 21:21:25 |
Igor, I'm quoting because for (unknown to me reason) it reappeared in its place a moment ago (or even the only one under this comment, although it wasn't like that before)
: In the last (Saturday) fatal case that happened at Zelenica, it certainly was neither a "touring" nor "irresponsible" skier or snowboarder (even taking into account what's written above).
It is known that the snowboarder was climbing towards the Zelenica hut on the otherwise snowcatted but avalanche-unprotected path that many regularly use for similar purpose.
Who should then take responsibility in case it happened to the snowcat operator, or who is that person who sent him to snowcat the direction that is deadly dangerous, both for the worker himself and for all users of the groomed surface, if it's clear that accidents have already happened on this unprotected section in the past?
Neither Tržič lift operators, nor the Municipality and GRS will simply manage to sweep this under the rug, and dismiss the family of the deceased with the explanation that the snowboarder himself was irresponsible and no one else..
So what's happening, who is afraid of the truth?
|
|
|
|
| heinz15. 02. 2010 21:37:44 |
Finally I figured out where the censorship was or its essence:
"the warning sign was placed only after the accident", about which Maja25 has already written here..
Who will tackle the epilogue?
|
|
|
|
| heinz15. 02. 2010 23:48:42 |
Well, we got the answer..:
It's not our habit to censor and - if we remove something, we inform the author about it.
How it happened that the comment was removed I still couldn't find out, well now it's back and - I apologize for that - Editor Franci Savenc
|
|
|
|
| kolesar16. 02. 2010 06:23:01 |
This year I've already gone along this path several times, even right after snowfall, and there was never a sign there warning about avalanche. The responsible ones should answer.
|
|
|
|
| storžek16. 02. 2010 08:02:07 |
This path is walked and skied a lot, I go several times too, not least the hut keeper with sleds every day, but the sun is to blame, which softened the snow under Triangle, like on the south roof of my house, the avalanche was a slab one. The snowboarder was not guilty at all, but this narrow section could be secured with some barriers, otherwise close the passage. Regards
|
|
|
|
| ugn16. 02. 2010 08:04:13 |
I don't think it's right to blame the cable car operators for you walking this path. No one has to, the cable car operator just treads the road because he needs it for access to the top for his purposes. Surely he doesn't tread it for hikers' needs, why would he, since they don't buy tickets. Of course many people gladly take the opportunity that it's trodden there and go on foot, but still these are hikers moving in the mountain environment (outside the ski slope) and they are responsible for themselves. From the central part of the avalanche, from the ski slope, the ski slope operator is obliged during operation to chase away pedestrians, since walking on ski slopes is prohibited by law. Then hikers just go up on foot outside the ski slope, at their own discretion, where it's easiest (on the trodden path), and they assess the dangers that exist there each in their own way. The bigger problem here is that it's a high mountain environment that is extremely easily accessible. If the path wasn't trodden, it would just be trampled, there probably wouldn't be significantly fewer people.
|
|
|
|
| sla16. 02. 2010 09:53:31 |
ugn - you're wrong!
At Zelenica it's like this, the cable car guys literally chase you onto this so-called transport path, which is apparently built illegally. They don't allow walking along the edge of the ski slope.
Secondly, I agree that we all underestimate avalanches from below the border ridge. Last winter (at least I think it was last year) we pushed through on this road over a huge avalanche deposit, which was probably at the same place where on Saturday it carried away the unfortunate borderer.
|
|
|
|
| ugn16. 02. 2010 10:06:58 |
the cable car guys chase you down from the ski slope in accordance with their duty to ensure safety on the ski slope - where you go then, they don't care - you can go home, but I believe most then voluntarily go to the transport path. But I don't believe that any cable car guy ordered anyone to go to the transport path.
|
|
|
|
| sla16. 02. 2010 10:17:40 |
ugn - obviously you've never gone on foot to the hut at Zelenica in winter. The problem with cable car guys was most critical a couple of years ago. It's also true that at that time after the ski slope operation some "tough guys" strolled up the middle of the ski slope.
My opinion is that the ski slope managers have the greatest responsibility for the accident.
|
|
|
|
| ugn16. 02. 2010 10:20:46 |
sla - come on, write what exactly of my statements is not true
|
|
|
|
| turbo16. 02. 2010 10:22:44 |
Article 7 of the FIS rules states that you can walk up and down the ski slope on foot, but always and only along the edge of the ski slope. So you don't endanger yourself or others.
This unfortunate rescue (supply) road was supposedly made because otherwise the ski slope couldn't operate. That's how they justified it back then when they ravaged nature (all the way up to the top of the Triangle lift). So by law we all have free choice, whether skiers, hikers, mountaineers, alpinists... how we will go up. That we have to behave appropriately or walk accordingly is self-understood.
But when avalanche danger is 3rd degree or higher, I would expect the rescue road to be safe, since they made it exactly for "rescuing" on it.
In the golden times of Zelenica (Ankele, Križaj) or until the construction of the rescue road, the ski slope operated as it did. Only when the hut burned down did they remember they lacked a road up there, and they built it first to the hut, then to the top of Triangle. Soon there will be a connection Zelenica - Završnica, or what?
|
|
|
|
| ugn16. 02. 2010 10:42:26 |
Law on safety on ski areas, 3rd article: On the ski area only skiing is allowed.
Therefore, to Zelenica on foot on the ski area when it is operating is not allowed. Not even at the edge. As for the operator, you may walk outside the ski area. You can go off-trail, on some possible path, cart track, road, railway, but you are responsible for yourselves. If a snowcat drove on the path before for any reason, it changes nothing.
|
|
|
|
| turbo16. 02. 2010 10:52:21 |
ugn, not true!!!
3rd article: The skier or snowboarder coming from behind must choose the direction of travel so as not to endanger the skier or snowboarder in front.
I also shot in the dark, 7th article applies to skiers and boarders. And allows ascending along the ski area.
FIS rules:
http://www.alpi.si/?id=532
|
|
|
|
| turbo16. 02. 2010 10:55:56 |
Forgot to write, allows pedestrian ascending or descending (for skiers and snowboarders)
|
|
|
|
| turbo16. 02. 2010 11:06:05 |
|
|
|
You must log in to post a comment:
If you do not yet have a username, you must first
register.