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Which GPS?

Bojan_A24. 10. 2013 20:11:41

@Pohodnik38: Article where among other I also explained why hiking GPS device is never more accurate than 15m: http://bojanambrozic.wordpress.com/2013/03/02/gps-in-teorija-relativnosti/

Processor has nothing to do with accuracy. If you want millimeter accuracy get geodetic instrument: http://www.synergypositioning.co.nz/shop/GPS+Equipment/Geodetic+Receivers.html

PS price 10 000- 30 000 €
PS2 why does my head always hurt when I read misconceptions as result of not knowing GPS operation
PS3: GPS is very useful thing in hills, I always have it with me.

(+1)

smatjaz24. 10. 2013 20:40:53

pohodnik and Bojan, both right, as people differ in car driving style, so we differ in hiking. Fact is GPS is aid whose operation needs to be known extremely well, because otherwise you park in Jesenice instead of Murska Sobota from Koper. Likewise offers tons of data and help which some don't know or don't want to use. Just like ignorance of reading map or mountain map, ignorance of GPS for use is completely useless and even more dangerous! So I tell you: when you know GPS in detail, know its capabilities and functions and thoroughly its rules, then only you can see what suits you and what not. Another story is people walked, sailed and flew around the world already some 1000 years and also succeeded to reach goal (well some got lost or arrived wrong - Columbus instead of India to America, could do now without it which is true, but it makes everything easier for us, which ultimately is task of aids (among other car is aid too, whatever you use it for right?). Until this year I too climbed huge mountains and summited peaks without GPS without problem and trouble, yet with it much easier for me, especially in planning hikes and ascents, and also on ascents themselves in new and unknown directions, because I enter them beforehand and with it just check correctness of my hiking intelligence. Otherwise for all not 100% skilled in setting GPS and entering known paths and tours we provide on hribi.net already made GPS tracks (or home-planned and already walked paths by GPS users) on link http://www.hribi.net/gps.asp and http://www.hribi.net/gpsvprasanja.asp where you just select path you want to walk and with some of course mandatory computer knowledge and help of instructions on hribi.net simply enter into your GPS device and go on path, without couple hours tormenting in front of computer when just creating planned path. Often I copy already made path plan and compare with mine which I created before ascent, and then both with track I did on ascent and must say almost no deviation if we ignore deviations Bojan mentioned due to poor satellite signal for this and that reason. In attachment example of path last week to Stegovnik up through window and down through saddle. Am I right? big

PS: always have both aids with me mountain map and GPS (also because I forgot to charge batteries and it emptied), so I look at map mostly during stops or before rest GPS I use while walking, because probably with meter x meter map hard to turn around say in Kamnik Alps, especially when fog descends or visibility decreases.
lp Matjaž

ljubitelj gora28. 10. 2013 23:36:52

If she had a GPS, she would surely return to the starting point:
http://www.grs-trzic.si/novice.php?pid=332

TOPO map, also just adria without contour lines is fine.

IgorZlodej29. 10. 2013 09:05:34

@lg it's hard to get back to the starting point if the terrain gets too demanding, if you're scared and unsure, and if it's night too. No GPS helps here, because the head can't manage anymore, nor the legs without help.

(+5)

smatjaz29. 10. 2013 09:17:25

Igor, in such fog as in the article photos, GPS helps a lot. You also have to consider that if you have the device, your head works differently, but if the body is at the end, you can at least send coordinates or approximate position from the map because otherwise due to fog you don't control it. The way back along the GPS track it drew is much easier because you've already walked it, know it and know how dangerous it is, which doesn't apply to continuing the path unless you've walked it before and know it well, but don't have it drawn in GPS. In short, if you master your GPS well, it's very useful in such case. I agree with you that if you're not sure about any of this, don't push forward or back and use what you have to call for help. About insufficient equipment I'd rather not here because it's a "never ending story", so my backpack weighs about 18-20 kg on every ascent over 1200m - mainly for building fitness and leg strength, and everything I need is inside - full winter gear even in summer, because in mid-summer I encountered extreme winter conditions which I handled with "unnecessary stuff" as some say when they see me. True that in 99% of cases you need 10% of that gear, but in 1% it gives you the chance to continue. Same with GPS, in good weather and no problems it's just a toy and for recording info, because visibility is good enough not to get lost and plenty of visitors to help on the way. But when it "thickens" you want personal rescue service with you. mežikanje

(+2)

jedriličar29. 10. 2013 10:16:38

The worst for me is that the GRS report says they found the husband separated from his wife, and as can be concluded, not just a couple of meters away....
What kind of responsible man in such conditions leaves his wife alone ???? zmeden

(+3)

BorisM29. 10. 2013 11:44:37

Maybe he was running away from her. mežikanje

(+3)

ZoranV4. 11. 2013 16:23:48

I have the Share where app on my phone. The app automatically replies with exact location upon received SMS from a specific person. So if I have GSM signal my girlfriend can find me in the mountains anytime at +/- 20m accuracy.
The message contains coordinates and generated link to google maps with my location.
If going to a tavern, of course turn it off nasmeh

(+3)

pohodnik384. 11. 2013 17:43:33

Don't talk too much about it or our boss will immediately want everyone to set this up on phones zavijanje z očmi

ljubitelj gora4. 11. 2013 17:45:30

I just don't know what benefit GPS would have on off-trail, say TOPO map in the picture.

why GPS on pathless terrain, this is Travnnikov dolina, Travnik, PLaski Vogel, was up there last month.

lynx4. 11. 2013 18:16:58

very useful if you get lost or visibility drops to zero, especially if you recorded your own track. And for those who walk by azimuth. Base map is just a bonus.

... which was all already said. zavijanje z očmi

(+1)

smatjaz4. 11. 2013 19:39:28

LG, 1. Mainly for playing with data when you get back from the trip. 2. You can draw a track, convert it to a plt file, upload it to hribi.net and earn a beer from someone who will find it useful. 3. If it ever suddenly "thickens" in fog, darkness or otherwise, you can return back along that black line that the device drew behind you when you were still going forward and return to the starting point. 4. In trouble you can read geo latitudes and longitudes quite accurately (when visibility is zero, the walked path is very relative and you have no sense whether it is 1 or 5 km), before your head and body give up, which is very important for narrowing the area for rescuers when they are searching for you. 5. On the GPS map around your position there are marked summits (yes, you approximately know where you are if you know the terrain) and contours, which if you know how to read tell you what lies ahead - hill or cliff, WARNING: all together it is not worth "a broken penny" if you don't know the device inside out!!! ........ while at zero visibility with a map or compass you don't help yourself much. If the weather is nice, you don't need all that stuff at all because from the Julians you can see to Pohorje anyway and besides there are so many visitors in the hills then that you can ask someone for direction almost every few meters - as if there were markers.
Lynx, did I write it right? jezik

Don't take what is written badly but as a witty description of GPS use, because I got the feeling that I annoyed someone a bit with my descriptions, although it is not my intention to show off up here, but just to advise, given that I know these types of devices (Garmin) quite well, at least those that I own, because technology advances at the speed of light, so I don't follow it the best either.
Anyway, brains in the head, good luck and safe step.
On the first photo, there is a purple drawn track (route plan) that I made for trip planning, or someone else already made it, uploaded to hribi.net, and I just transferred it to the device. The black line is the already walked path.
lp Matjaž mežikanje

(+1)

keber14. 11. 2013 20:35:14

Well, if I subtract path analysis, GPS is most useful exactly on off-trail and unknown unmarked paths, especially if you preload (one way or another) at least an approximate route where you would go. I use it more for mountain biking the unknown, because our mountain off-trail areas are rather too little off-trail. But when I first went from Komna to the Triglav Lakes valley through 2-4 m snow without prior tracks and with extremely foggy knowledge of the terrain, a GPS track would have been extremely useful.

(+1)

lykos8. 11. 2013 00:01:25

a somewhat older thing, but it can clear the picture for some: http://www.volontar.net/javno/clanki/uporaba%20gps%20v%20gorah%20-%20usposabljanje%20za%20vodnike%20pzs.pdf

ljubitelj gora8. 11. 2013 11:16:25

In the Topo map many paths are missing, it comes in good only for some direct descents to paths on navigation and the summits themselves, otherwise mostly experience, orientation, knowledge...

Janez528. 11. 2013 12:08:12

How useful GPS is depends on how well you know how to use it and why you use it. For walking on your home hill where you know all paths, it is really more for statistics. But if you go abroad and prepare properly beforehand, it takes you to the starting point and you also have the path you intend to take marked on GPS. That is why GPS is a useful device. But we went to the mountains even when there were no GPS yet.

lykos8. 11. 2013 17:45:39

@LG: AdriaTopo, regarding paths/roads, is really one big mess. Main roads are sometimes marked as trails, trails can be entered as asphalt roads or in the same color as contour lines...
@Janez: Fully agree. Regarding the last thought it's like this: we went to mountains even when there were no e.g. mobile phones and Gore-Tex, today these things are available and can be very useful.

smatjaz8. 11. 2013 19:28:13

lykos, under your definition of topo map I sign, actually you don't know if the line on it is a trail or village - cart track, everything is the same !!! Really we need a map in Slovenian area that would solve this and eliminate this deficiency, so that the user knows up to where the road or path is passable for vehicles or up to where you can get with the vehicle and leave it there and from where you can go on foot. To some extent I solve this with MapSource, when I have Europe maps and Adriaroute loaded where I can "jump" between maps when planning the route and thus partially determine up to where is the road and from where the footpath starts, but only partially, most I help myself with a classic paper map !!! So today nothing else remains for me but to read the instructions for vehicle access to the starting point from the internet (hribi.net) and only then enter the track into the device and set off from there. This is nicely solved on paper mountain maps. Example KSA map has precisely drawn up to where to Kamniška Bistrica is the asphalted path, then from it to Jermance (don't hang me for this - I know that now traffic is prohibited from there!) gravel path and from Jermance onwards you can clearly see that it continues as a footpath....etc, to Kamniško sedlo. And since such a map is already made, I think that in the computer age (KSA map is probably on some computer so they can reprint it later) there shouldn't be a problem to convert it into a file that devices could recognize. If someone did that I'd buy it immediately. But obviously there's no interest, or maybe it's not that simple after all, I don't know because I don't know enough about it. And since there are hiking maps of whole Slovenia, someone who knows how could combine them into one navigation map that would actually be useful. What do others think about this? But I agree that of course you can go without all this stuff, but why if it exists and makes everything easier. Even the cave man invented tools to make his work easier, although he did it without them too. nasmeh

Safe steps to everyone with or without .......maps, garmin, tips......which are also nice if you're not at odds with them.
lp Matjaž

ljubitelj gora8. 11. 2013 20:05:17

It can be fixed in one web program, yesterday on pathless terrain I turned on topo map on Nokia X6 and see if you can find your way. From the image you can't tell where bushes are, where fallen gullies, where impassable terrain, you see only grassy area (white), forest area, some trails, summit points, huts.... If you went direct down around there you'd fall right into that world of fallen impassable gullies, that would be useful for directs on Pokljuka.

lynx8. 11. 2013 22:24:34

Oh my god, come on, now you're exaggerating.

A better topographic map was made by info@kje.si , but I don't know if they sell it without their program.

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