Velika and Mala Mojstrovka
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| ljubitelj gora12. 01. 2013 12:59:19 |
Good tour, good or excellent safety care. As I followed most go without rope, really smart , but ultimately their problem. But another description caught my eye, though worse conditions, but safety done right.
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| jedriličar12. 01. 2013 13:25:13 |
Regarding roping in gullies like Pripravniška, Butinarjeva, Župančičeva and similar, one could discuss, but naturally always individual judgment (conditions, skills, confidence etc.). Who feels safer roped, let them rope up. However, distinguish roping with anchors and partner belay from regular glacier roping. Seen many climbers who rope like glacier pair and climb e.g. Pripravniška. Imagine what if one slips or falls? To me in such gullies absolutely not, and if no stance and belay better not to rope up. From pics not clear what belay and roping was done, but for average climber gullies like Župančičeva don't require roped climbing except for school purposes. But my humble opinion, others need not agree. Anyway congrats to the team on the climbed gully.
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| viharnik12. 01. 2013 14:41:57 |
The usual roping just on the rope doesn't come into play here unless an experienced alpinist leads, snow hard so crampons grip well, rope fully tensioned.
In our case Silvo and I belayed on ice axe, on ice only crampons, in deep snow adze of ice axes for protection, rope on ice axe (no tangle with rocks below) fed in loops to leader. Any other improvised protection except ice screws or pitons with clipping is not suitable. Regarding ascent with belay or without each must self-assess, good to learn protection methods. Route went fluidly behind Silvo with no slipping of ice axe or boot.
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| dprapr12. 01. 2013 15:13:22 |
As far as I understand, this is about belaying the second in the rope team. Of course, if you didn't place any intermediate protections with ice screws.
Congratulations!
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| viharnik12. 01. 2013 15:29:13 |
Ice here and there on rocks was very thin and on impact with screw it cracked so we didn't use ice screws. Anyway, even for the leader advancing, such ice axe protection in case of fall is better than nothing. In this case first force is caught by belayer tied to harness, right after force transfers to adzes of stuck ice axes tied to prusik. So with reduction (subtraction) F1 fall force - (F2 upper + F3 ice axe + F4 ice axe) main fall force and opposing forces at three points results in smaller force of falling climber speed at end, allowing to cushion fall or even fully control and stop it. Thanks for congratulations
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| turbo12. 01. 2013 15:44:06 |
After what Silvo has climbed so far, and that's not little, and given the difficulty of what he's climbed, which is far from easy, there can't be the slightest doubt that the trip to MM via Župančič wasn't done safely. May there be many more such trips
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| viharnik12. 01. 2013 16:49:36 |
Turbo, I agree with your contribution. Silvo is one of the better ones, not in the sense of the trio of our premier musketeers (Franček Knez, Silvo Karo, Janez Jeglič and a few others who are a chapter unto themselves, phenomenon and rare case in the section of entire world history of alpinism) but a mountaineer who in youth soloed very difficult routes in difficulty and also time-wise, long-time alpinist and licensed instructor. He also climbed the north face of Matterhorn of the Schmid brothers in conditions and snow conditions-ice, rock with bad winter, when the hut warden just shook his head and begged them not to climb up. At that time all rope teams turned back very quickly.
From such alpinists one could learn all life and it would still be too little.
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| ljubitelj gora12. 01. 2013 20:02:07 |
Some words come easily from the tongue, but in essence, judging by the pictures, the trip really wasn't carried out correctly, but still it's progress if at least roped, but I can't imagine what it would look like in case of a fall, both down, possibly taking someone else along, and in the end X injured. I experienced that once myself, experienced mountaineer but just a casual rope team—I went up roped, down I said I won't go. The same I saw last year a few times in the mountains with that rope team of 3 from Little Triglav... but that's not our concern... someone told me that recently one GRS rescuer snapped photos and photographed folks roped and thought, what trolls are in the mountains. And sure I believe many can comment well and write the essence....
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| viharnik12. 01. 2013 21:00:13 |
LG, when I was already hiking in the mountains, you weren't even in the world. Now think how many scree, via ferrata without back-then protections and easy climbing pathless routes I have behind me. Already in early youth as teens we climbed in Julijci via Hanzova in Prisojnik over both windows, paths decorated with hanging rotten wire, and both Martuljek Poncas, Jalovec, Rateče Poncas, Kočna... Already just in these four years posting on Hribi.net, a considerable number of trips has accumulated and even surprised me. I always tackle harder trips first with my own conviction that I'll manage them and with awareness that I won't endanger others. That protection on Mojstrovka due to difficulty—even if it weren't there, but it was unique, instructive (on steep slope it's not child's play to make a belay station, handling rope etc.) and in the given snow conditions done optimally correctly. Yes, could have dug to the rock and hammered pitons if time allowed.
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| turbo12. 01. 2013 21:15:40 |
@ljubitelj gora
Even Trubar's Abecedarium from 1550 is more readable and understandable than your writing!
( picture, source: sl.wikipedia )
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| ljubitelj gora13. 01. 2013 12:53:03 |
If you think so, that's fine too, since I don't post as much as before, not even on FB. Yesterday though I did a nice and very demanding trip.
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| viharnik13. 01. 2013 13:23:27 |
LG, probably you ingest something weird on your farm, that makes you ferment like that and fall from one extreme to another, defend yourself, hide, appear again, imply something again etc. If you go to mountains like what's under your roof, then God help. You know a true mountaineer is the one satisfied with all that life and mountain offers and doesn't set goals at any cost in mountains. The true path is the one that enriches you, ennobles, connects with nature, opens senses, strengthens and awakens personality, sometimes tempers and sharpens like ridges in wind, at the end opens wisdom from experiences, events at number of ascents, nature can be your personal guru too if you know how to observe and feel it, in short mountain is much more than just goal and summit or difficulty grades on mountain. Path is the key one, if we follow it in our heart and spirit be it in Himalaya, Alps, Julijci, Šmarna gora or just Kočevski Rog, vast seas, desert.
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| ljubitelj gora13. 01. 2013 13:29:31 |
That fits here. I'll reply to you on ZS.
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| rb0113. 01. 2013 14:12:32 |
Some photos from yesterday's ascent to Mojstrovka via Pripravniška:
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| pikpok26. 01. 2013 18:28:18 |
Was there anyone up there today? Do you think it's safe enough regarding avalanches or better to go to something more demanding?
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| ljubitelj gora26. 01. 2013 19:22:38 |
It's not safe, because it's still level 3.
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