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| boy366. 10. 2015 18:02:17 |
janez73 that's exactly what this forum is for, at least I think so, sharing tips, experiences, opinions....! It's not for insulting those who think differently, at least I think so! Even someone who only loves feratas might stop at the hut at Zelenica, drink and eat something, and maybe contribute to the PD cash register, which then goes to developing the mountaineering center, path maintenance, etc., etc... and the circle is successfully closed. What I want to say, if we are tolerant to each other, work together, only then can we succeed! Abroad is a good indicator and teacher for us!
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| SamoK6. 10. 2015 18:46:02 |
Ah, well, yeah. Primoza, "kindergartens" was never meant derogatorily, ask anyone you want. More like something basic. And with that, how on a ferata only hammering pitons is missing, otherwise you can already climb Sfinga, you really "a bit" exaggerated. And that's exactly the point of my comments - not that I want to deny anyone such or other gyms. I believe a difficult ferata is an excellent aid for anyone doing something physically demanding, including alpinists. But I don't agree there's any major relatedness. In alpinism, arm strength is roughly second to last in importance.
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| Daaam6. 10. 2015 18:53:35 |
#SamoK basically I agree with you but this sentence "In alpinism arm strength is roughly second to last in importance" confuses me.. at this point I'd ask what's in last place and what in third to last? ..maybe helmet color? 
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| SamoK6. 10. 2015 18:58:29 |
 )
Daam, don't be picky. Arm strength is NOT the most important - OK? Of course that doesn't mean an alpinist with stronger arms isn't at an advantage if he masters everything else equally well as someone with weaker arms.
But since you mentioned the helmet  ) - hey, here really too often opinions appear that you buy a good helmet, self-belay set, automatic crampons and maybe a bag of magnesia, and off you go, winter to Triglav.
OK, enough.
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| dprapr6. 10. 2015 19:46:19 |
I will never mention climbing shoes again...
Hold me to my word.
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| Viper6. 10. 2015 21:08:49 |
Primoza, can you please explain to me why full rope technique knowledge, procedure for rescuing the fallen, building belays, intermediate anchors, rope team movement in feratas is important for safe overcoming of feratas.
Most people without that knowledge get through a ferata where arm strength, good climbing technique, proper placement of the self-belay set on the harness and proper clipping of the set to the cable is needed.
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| jax6. 10. 2015 21:15:22 |
I'll answer: if nothing else, in via ferratas it should generally hold that everyone in the group has with them everything needed for rope descent (and the knowledge thereof), at least one in the group has some ropes. Why? Well, now answer my question, what will you do if midway through the via ferrata on Plot you realize it's too hard and you can't go up. Descent is extremely problematic.
That's the inherent danger of via ferrata climbing - the moment we enter a difficult via ferrata, we're aware that retreat is problematic or even impossible. In mountaineering the rule is that the moment we're no longer sure of the possibility of return, we turn back. But precisely in via ferratas this rule is regularly violated. In alpinism it's the same, but alpinists usually have descent gear with them. Therefore via ferratas are dangerous and therefore equipment and abseiling knowledge is needed for their safe use too.
And it's clear no one sticks to this, but this was the cause of many rescues too.
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| Viper6. 10. 2015 21:18:29 |
If you don't have a rope with you, that knowledge doesn't help you on the via ferrata, that's exactly what I mean and nothing else.
Because I think many don't have a rope with them on the via ferrata.
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| jax6. 10. 2015 21:19:43 |
I'll answer: if nothing else, in via ferratas it should generally hold that everyone in the group has with them everything needed for rope descent (and the knowledge thereof), at least one in the group has some ropes.
Wouldn't you read a bit better?
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| Viper6. 10. 2015 21:45:11 |
Jax it's true that knowledge for rope descent is needed too..., but if someone doesn't have a rope with them, they can't do it. That's what I want to say.
Answer to your question too: if I didn't have a rope with me, and realized I can't climb up anymore, I'd try to climb down, if that doesn't work then GRS or what?
Even alpinists' retreat from a high wall, if something goes wrong, is largely impossible even with all descent gear, especially if we're high in the wall e.g. 800m.
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| Keko7. 10. 2015 00:18:57 |
A few years ago I witnessed a girl's fall in the Želazna Kapla via ferrata, on the hardest part. The girl was in the group ahead of us. She was hanging on the safety kit and it was clear her strength was completely gone. Luckily, there were people in the group who knew how to proceed. They tied her to the rope and helped her continue the path, or better said, they almost dragged her forward over the wall, since she was completely exhausted. In such a case, just the rope isn't enough, you also need to master maneuvers, rope technique and rescuing the fallen, just like primoza wrote above. Otherwise, the rescue can be very dangerous even for those trying to help.
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| Jovan Cukut7. 10. 2015 07:27:28 |
'... In fact it's nothing else but a cable on which a fitness-via ferrata climber hangs like a monkey. I repeat: it has nothing to do with mountaineering!', writes among other things SamoK. What all falls under mountaineering read at this link: https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorni%C5%A1tvo.
According to you a mountaineer or alpinist is a fitness – via ferrata climber and a monkey hanging on a cable. That you rushed, you admit with an apology. Any of us, from mountaineer to alpinist, can on some trip have a bit of everything, glacier crossing or climbing, via ferratas, rock climbing, bivouacking..., so it's not right to look down on via ferratas somehow. They are often an integral part of some longer and harder ascent.
How important arm strength is I realized in Veseli tobogan, Ledinski slap, Cesare Piazzetta via ferrata in the Piz Boè wall and elsewhere in our and foreign mountains, where arms tire even from swinging ice axes, let alone hammering, in steep and smooth via ferratas from gripping cables and pulling. And once again regarding arm strength the already written sentence on this portal: 'Besides all experience and knowledge you have, on trips the most important is arm and leg strength, endurance, psyche...', I remembered the words of an experienced alpinist - Himalayan that I once heard.
SamoK, publish on this portal some nice ascent in our mountains, alpinistic or 'shodrovski', with detailed description in pictures and comments, so that someone of us might repeat it. That's also the point of this portal, where many of us get data for repeating the published, especially something new. And don't rush anymore. No hard feelings.
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| don kihott7. 10. 2015 07:59:29 |
This Samo makes some harsh and unimportant comparisons, but in the end surely climbs via ferratas himself...
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| MatejaP7. 10. 2015 09:18:55 |
Well, the problem isn't the via ferrata, but the weather that doesn't allow us to let off steam outside. Maybe someone even agrees with me
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| natasa si7. 10. 2015 09:35:26 |
One would jokingly say that you're so strong in the mouth that you could bite that via ferrata to the top, you don't need arm strength or chalk or gloves and magnesia at all (end of a wild combination).. I just think of those who are so negatively directed against us, who value not only the beauties of the mountains but also our physical and mental endurance. That's how personal records are broken. How important they are, you'll know yourselves when you push a bit beyond yourselves and we all really do that, apparently it's also called progress.. Criteria are different. But we judge and underestimate really fully willingly, dude.
In my opinion: The greatest mental satisfaction gives us the surpassing of physical effort or pleasure!!
And what is challenge? For me it's more publishing on hribi.net than climbing the sung via ferrata. No hard feelings and happy to all.
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| ms_primoz7. 10. 2015 09:46:29 |
Obviously, the influence of the weather really did its thing...
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| SamoK7. 10. 2015 10:01:29 |
Hey, some here seem to be speaking another language. Who is stopping you from climbing via ferratas? Nobody prevents anyone from running marathons, doing push-ups at home and lifting weights. All great! Just don't, please, mislead people that it has any link to mountaineering, except good arm training and a bit (really a bit) for the psyche. All else needed for real mountaineering must be learned in the mountains with more experienced people. No other way.
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| Keko7. 10. 2015 10:21:22 |
Two paths lead to the top of the mountain. One extremely demanding via ferrata and easier secured. Up via ferrata, down easier secured. So we have mountain, via ferrata and easier secured path. So who goes up and down easier secured has link to mountaineering, I who go up via ferrata and down easier have no link to mountaineering.
Really, interesting thinking.
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| SamoK7. 10. 2015 10:23:24 |
As I say, another language.
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