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| VanSims22. 04. 2012 18:46:43 |
Bumping the thread! 
@turbo:
>>> come on tell me (us), how much pepper spray do you use daily, weekly, monthly???
I don't measure exact quantities, but enough to have peace from unwanted mutts.
>>>And in another forum you write that border signs get on your nerves, that you'll personally remove them in the future . . .
You got that bit wrong about the signs but it really annoys me that sometimes I'd dismantle a "Dogs on leash" sign, since they're useless there anyway. Those who get it follow it without them.
>>> thank god we're not in the USA, or you'd buy some heavier caliber instead of spray . . .
Yes, and I'd use it in case of threat from a dog. If the owner wanted something from me too (not the first time) I'd use it on him too. Because self-defense there, unlike our rotten system, is a right enshrined in the constitution, they wouldn't convict me for it, questionable if the case would even reach court.
>>>First all dogs on leash, even the best trained ones. And many still won't be satisfied. So all dogs on leashes also muzzle on the snout. And still not satisfied. Well, and in the end the dog at home, owner in the mountains.
That would be ok too and wouldn't bother me. Well I'm satisfied with a less strict regime, like the one I mentioned.
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| FLEKSARCA22. 04. 2012 21:23:06 |
You mean you'll go a bit crazy around the forum LG-style again . Those of us who think that people walking around with pepper spray are afraid, probably won't change our opinion. Unless Diža pissed you off a bit, and you want to lure out some like-minded, go lucky. Otherwise parasol in hand, or a stick over the shoulder, and out for some air, you'll like it better .
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| VanSims22. 04. 2012 22:52:33 |
Please nothing against LG. He's ok, just here you lynched him because he's a bit different. You mocked him when he was looking for company to the mountains, but he found what he was looking for and I wish him many pleasant ascents with his FB company.
Sometimes he writes something silly but his tour descriptions are magnificent and otherwise I think he's ok.
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| sprehajalec23. 04. 2012 09:30:01 |
Maybe some dog owner could chime in....
I don't understand this chase. Fact is, there are owners like me - I wander the hills only because of the dog - for some reason.
And this with "Dogs on leash" signs. I mean what sense does it make to leash the dog when I'm alone far around????? I attach my little beast when I meet someone, then unhook again And it hasn't happened to me yet that someone got upset. Most people I meet just smile contentedly, because they see I called the mutt and leashed it just because of them.
A bit of patience please.
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| U&Q23. 04. 2012 11:38:08 |
I also started going to the mountains just because of the dog, now it's totally hooked me and I really enjoy the mountains but I can't imagine going anywhere without my faithful companion, so of course I won't go where you have to climb a bit, but there are enough other hills where we can both enjoy without fear.
Since I'm a student I have the chance to go to the mountains also during the week when there aren't so many people, in any case I prefer paths with less traffic. Even popular peaks usually have paths where you don't meet a soul.
I myself haven't had bad experiences because of the dog yet. At the top I always leash her, if we meet someone on the way I move her off the path and she sits nicely while people pass. Sometimes people are right around the corner and I can't move her fast enough but she doesn't push into people, in such situations she goes by nicely.
Signs though.... no comment. Not only have I noticed "dog on leash" signs, on the path from Ljubelj to Zelenica even that the dog must be on leash and muzzled (mid summer, in the sun, hiking uphill and don't allow the dog to cool with the only possible way - tongue), on one path to Gonte I even noticed a sign (middle of asphalted road) "forbidden for dogs and cyclists". People are impatient, I don't want to be a conflict person and I know I won't get anywhere arguing on the forum, so I ignore such posts.
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| bostjanp23. 04. 2012 19:52:58 |
I have nothing against four-legged creatures in the mountains, just let me remind you of something. I'm of the opinion that if the dog obeys the call to the owner regardless of events, then leashes aren't necessary. If the dog doesn't master that, then the leash is necessary. I speak because of an unpleasant case recently. While walking on Kamniški vrh, an unsuspecting smaller dog "tested" me a bit under the calf above the shoe, then almost his slightly bigger friend too. The bite didn't reach the skin and didn't damage equipment and most importantly, my health wasn't threatened. But I'd remind dog owners of this, whether their mutt is capable of recall. If not, then on a leash. For the owners' sake for the safety of hikers/alpinists.
p.s. the dogs weren't provoked from my side, because I don't do that.
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| VanSims23. 04. 2012 20:45:13 |
Sprehajalec and U&O say they are good owners and there's no reason not to believe them. Precisely because of that they can't understand psychopathic owners, because such behavior is foreign to them, because they are careful with animals and insightful and respect unwritten rules too. Psychopaths are understood only by psychiatrists (and even they not fully).
bostjanp: Leashed or not - the dog shouldn't harass strangers. Even a leashed dog can jump at you or sniff you or just walk around you, stare at you,... Some just don't like it - not necessarily from fear, they just don't want it, amen. The reason doesn't matter (like a normal woman doesn't want all men groping her). This is assaulting people. It's clear to normal people... You can ask the person if they want the dog close. Is that so hard?
I'm writing this of course for normal owners who are just scatterbrained or indifferent. With a psychopath it doesn't matter if the dog is leashed or not and if it masters recall or not. The dog will e.g. be leashed but jump at you, the owner will laugh beside. Or otherwise masters recall but won't call it. Rather grin or just watch and enjoy.
Example from Italy: a couple comes towards me with a German shepherd - unleashed and walking free. The dog approaches me, those two just: 'Non fa niente, non fa niente,...' Neither called it back nor leashed it. Then I had to spray with pepper. Well, then he finally held it so I could pass.
Sad that with most such owners you have to use force (or at least threaten) to make them move. He maybe knows it does nothing, I don't. Of course you have to be completely calm, already for the dog not to excite it and of course not to give the owner pleasure.
And please at least normal owners: spare that stupid remark 'it won't do anything'. You do something!
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| jprim23. 04. 2012 21:46:10 |
@VanSims
... I think you're completely misusing the word psychopath, my god where have we come to ...
Now even psychopaths walk on mountain trails.
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| bostjanp25. 04. 2012 19:43:26 |
The word "probal" I mentioned in the previous post means that that little dog literally bit me above the shoe, twice, but didn't tear the pants or injure the leg. The owner didn't react, I just raised my voice over the dog and then both moved away a bit and calmed down, though it still barked. I'm not afraid of dogs and don't show fear or provoke them. It was just one incident and I hope the last. I know the dogs that MajaO has by character, also Beagles, and they are not unpleasant dogs at all. Obedient, just with Beagles you have to train recall for a very long time so that the dog really stops and comes to the owner if it runs after noise in the forest. Once again, if anyone misunderstood me, I have nothing against dogs and owners in the hills/mountains. If I had a dog myself, it would surely be a mountaineer/climber, most likely a purebred German Shepherd, trained as a rescue dog.
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| turbo25. 04. 2012 20:25:12 |
I promised myself  not to comment on this topic anymore. But I'll do it one more time, and this time about dogs, definitely the last time . Therefore a bit broader 
For four decades I've been going to the mountains. I've tried almost everything that the mountaineering hiking mountain world offers. From mass hikes on easy marked trails to pathless solo hiking with easier climbing. Both summer and winter. Even one icefall behind me and countless steep snow couloirs. Not to mention my beloved ski touring. And canyoning and rafting as added value. And paragliding in tandem. I was convinced I'd tried everything, really everything the mountain world offers. Then last fall we went with MajaO and her two little dogs to Čisti Vrh and . . . . 
Yes, and I discovered something completely new about hills and mountains  Some completely new horizons, for which I'll be grateful to MajaO until the end of my days . Visiting the useless world in the company of two fluffies. Two well-raised, cute, friendly and oh and just wonderful puppies. With which, and with MajaO of course equally , wandering through all kinds of hills, hills and mountains is always again a unique experience. Such a special experience that, as it seems, from the end of summer we'll visit the mountain world with one more furry friend
With doggy greetings, Turbo
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| foxy25. 04. 2012 21:15:30 |
Another one on the dog topic, and not just in the mountains. I admit, I get really itchy when I hear the sentence "he won't do anything". My son is luckily tall enough now that dogs can't reach him anymore, but when he was small, I had countless problems because of dogs. My son is a severe asthmatic and deadly allergic to dogs, so dog "kisses" were always a harsh ordeal for him and me. He can't even pet them without thoroughly washing his hands immediately. In short, no contact allowed. You can imagine his and my troubles, especially in the mountains when you're far from water and your face starts swelling from a dog kiss. I always had medication with me, but those are asthma meds that don't help if your face swells so much you can't even open your eyes. And it's your little eager beaver to whom this keeps happening. Not to mention that dogs love him endlessly and always run to him first. I know people don't think about it and don't mean anything bad, but that's how it is. So I'm not thrilled about the friendliness of strange dogs, even though I like animals and once had a dog myself.
I'm fed up with explanations that "he doesn't mean any harm" simply isn't enough and that my son is deadly allergic and for God's sake hold the dog so we can pass.
Oh, and to add, I'm not for leashing dogs, just let them be trained and the matter is settled.
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| ljubitelj gora26. 04. 2012 10:34:14 |
I have a German Shepherd mix and we go training on the hills every day...I don't even call him, but he always waits for me in front of the door...wags his tail, runs there and back, jumps....
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| sprehajalec26. 04. 2012 10:46:09 |
And then?
When you go training?
My beast also supervises me before departure. When he sees the backpack...
And still. Encounters with people and animals? I have a dog, yet I'm one of those who fears dogs. And I understand people who want their peace. Is it so hard to grab or leash for those couple minutes until the encounter is over? Not for me, nor should it be for others. Many visibly relax when they see the pooch is really under control.
To the comment of careless owners "he won't do anything" I usually reply with "does he know that?" or "BUT I DO". Then it's peace. Well, sometimes they look at me weird why I'm nagging when I have a dog too, but that's how I am.
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| dore26. 04. 2012 11:48:39 |
Why haven't you stopped yet?
I'll go to the mountains, with a dog, even if some burst from anger, rage.....
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| sla26. 04. 2012 15:45:12 |
dore - just make sure you keep him on a leash, and pick up the poop after him....
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| IgorZlodej26. 04. 2012 16:52:12 |
The weather has turned nice, holidays are at the door, the situation at home really isn't enviable, but hills and mountains are. Go out for some air a bit, take your doggies with you, you'll see it'll make you feel better right away.
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| GregorC26. 04. 2012 17:56:32 |
Last time I couldn't believe how some (supposedly) clean up after their dogs. While running on the nearby hill I saw how a lady picked up the poop in a bag, looked around and simply threw it in the bag among the trees Important that she picked it up and put it in the bag. Sometimes you think nothing can surprise you anymore, but nevertheless...
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| VanSims26. 04. 2012 18:40:24 |
@jprim: how would you call someone who lets the dog jump on you and giggles? Or barks at you if you just yell in fear? Or physically attacks you if you defend yourself from his dog?
What is it then if not a psychopath? Unbalanced, sadist, overbearing, complex-ridden guy who vents his frustrations on others...? One thing is clear to everyone: such a person is not healthy.
@foxy: another proof how some dog owners don't care about people at all, even if something happens to them because of their dog.
Pepper spray then wouldn't be for you because even with careful use some drops can hit the user (hand that sprays) or a person nearby. For a healthy person it's nothing, at most some tears and redness that disappears in two days, but for an asthmatic it can of course be worse.
Another option is an ultrasonic dog repeller but it works poorly on calm dogs that wouldn't do anything to you anyway.
Last option is an electric shocker, for less aggressive dogs usually just the sound is enough to make it jump away or flee.
What does such a person say then when you tell him your son is asthmatic? I'll try saying once that I'm allergic. If he still grins or yells, well then... I really have no words.
@ sprehajalec: >>>To the comment of irresponsible owners "he won't do anything" I usually reply with "I WILL".
That's good, might use it sometime. Although I have a rule to defend myself and go quietly on, even if he brags I don't respond. Because some are just waiting for you to, so they can verbally nail you then. You just ignore him!
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| VanSims26. 04. 2012 18:45:14 |
@MajaO: I believe your dogs wouldn't do anything to me and it would be a positive experience. At least from what you write here I conclude you're a careful and responsible owner.
We can arrange something via PM. Just this week over the holidays I won't be around. Not going to the mountains But after that sure!
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