|
| Domch14. 08. 2013 12:29:16 |
Last Saturday I went through. Fixed gear impeccable, no snow. Recommend helmet and ascent up the wall, because in the upper part a larger stone can quickly trigger and fly down the scree. Great caution when exiting the climbing section into the scree, where you can instantly trigger a projectile down the slope.
| (+1) |  | |
|
|
|
|
| jax6. 11. 2013 11:58:13 |
Everything above 2000 in winter conditions counts as an alpine tour. How difficult it is is another matter.
|
|
|
|
| ljubitelj gora6. 11. 2013 11:58:23 |
Going through Turkish couloir in winter conditions counts as alpine tour. Altitude Turkish couloir (2114m), north side, winter gear mandatory.
|
|
|
|
| JusAvgustin6. 11. 2013 12:07:27 |
previously [it was an] approach, which is defined as ascent to peak over 2000 m in a certain period and in our climatic conditions.
| (+2) | | |
|
|
|
|
| DarjaZaplotnik6. 11. 2013 16:11:58 |
For a tour to be defined as alpinistic, height over 2000m and winter conditions simply aren't enough.
As @JusAvgustin already states, it's about winter approach if the tour is done in calendar winter or height over 3500 outside that timeframe.
lp d 
| (+3) | | |
|
|
|
|
| jax6. 11. 2013 17:35:33 |
Well, sorry, I wasn't quite precise. This is according to the alpinism commission:
Approach:
counts from 01.12. to 30.04. to peaks over 2000 and all year to peaks over
3.500 m.
In short, approach must end on peak over 2000 and be in the mentioned period. If it meets these, it's alpinism, even to Debelo peč and šnopčka on Lipanco 
|
|
|
|
| JusAvgustin6. 11. 2013 17:57:45 |
no, you're wrong again... Let everyone interpret it their own way. it doesn't even matter. Stay safe!
|
|
|
|
| ben6. 11. 2013 18:17:43 |
Well let me also wise up a bit, this is what Vladimir Habjan's guide says: Winter ascents in Slovenian mountains: What is a winter ascent? Any tour in snow conditions, practically also when there is no snow, since winter rules apply (e.g. no snow but rime). In alpinism narrower term established-more approach than ascent. Any approach to peak over 2000m done in winter or winter conditions. For alpinism winter tour calendar winter applies, from 21.12. to 20. March, tour in winter conditions (if snow then) from 1.-20. December and 21. March to 30. April. Wall orientation important: for SE, S, SW walls only winter conditions.
Very demanding snow tour: for progress walking(climbing) use ice axe and crampons. Spots needing belay longer than 40m, but not together more than 100m. Slope over 40 deg. Includes Turska gora, Begunjščica (Veliki plaz), Debeli vrh, Kukova špica...
Winter climbing (alpinistic ascent): climb climbing route, use hands too (ice axe). Slope at least 30 deg. Untrained/inexperienced need constant belay at least 100m. On slip less than 5m to self-arrest with axe, so some demanding/very demanding dry routes in snow become climbing (alpinistic). Includes: Grintovec SE ridge, Grapa čez jame, Storžič-fifth gully, Triglav etc...
|
|
|
|
| DarjaZaplotnik6. 11. 2013 18:23:33 |
@jax, you've probably mixed everything up a bit. What you're citing is actually considered in the annual registration of alp. instructors, alpinists and alp. trainees at the Commission for Alpinism.
I really don't care what you count as alpinism... well, scrambling on Debela peč definitely isn't.
| (+5) | | |
|
|
|
|
| jedriličar6. 11. 2013 18:33:02 |
Here, my modest contribution to the discussion, forwarding from HPS conditions for the alpinist title:
Definitions:
When interpreting the above-mentioned conditions, the following definitions apply:
alpine route in dry rock – route which for at least 60% of its length has a rating on the UIAA scale
(or some comparable recognized alpinistic scale), length at least 100 m.
winter alpine route – alpine route in dry rock (see above) with exit higher than 1500 m
above sea level, climbed during calendar winter in rock not oriented towards S, SW or SE (on
northern hemisphere), respectively towards N, NW or NE (on southern hemisphere) and in which during the ascent
snow and ice conditions prevail.
alpine route in winter conditions – alpine route in dry rock (see above) with exit higher than
1500 m above sea level, climbed during calendar winter in rock oriented towards S, SW or
SE (northern hemisphere), respectively towards N, NW or NE (southern hemisphere) and in which during the ascent
snow and ice conditions prevail; alt. alpine route in dry rock (see above) with exit higher
than 1500 m above sea level, climbed in the period from 01.12. to 20.12. or from 21.03. to 30.04. in
rock not oriented towards S, SW or SE (northern hemisphere), respectively towards N, NW or NE (on
southern hemisphere) and in which during the ascent snow and ice conditions prevail.
non-bolted route – route that does not contain expansion or glued bolts, except possibly at belays.
So, ascent through TZ and ascent to TG do not qualify as alpine ascents (per HPS standards, and probably same in PZS, it couldn't be submitted in the card for alpinist title exam), but in winter conditions they definitely qualify as very demanding snow tours ...
Hey if anyone's interested in details, see link:
http://www.aozeljeznicar.hr/attachment.php?id=3560
|
|
|
|
| jax6. 11. 2013 19:00:12 |
@jax, you've probably mixed everything up a bit. What you're citing is actually considered in the annual registration of alp. instructors, alpinists and alp. trainees at the Commission for Alpinism.
So? I didn't say that winter scrambling on Debela peč is anything difficult. But I did say that the alpinism commission recognizes it as an alpine tour. Turski žleb though - if you walk from its top to say Mala Rinka, it would count too.
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| ljubitelj gora6. 11. 2013 21:27:04 |
Which peaks in KSA would actually qualify as alpine tours? I'm talking about those ascents we usually do from this portal like Rinke, Jezerska Kočna, Brana, Ojstrica... from Julian Alps probably Mala Mojstrovka (gullies), Špik? Stenar. Probably then here only Brana and Mala Mojstrovka via one of the gullies. But the gullies on MM are somehow like Turski žleb, you reach only the top of the gully/žleb not the summit.
|
|
|
|
| lizika6. 11. 2013 21:38:14 |
Brana via Bobnar and via Bosova . . .
Planjava via Wisiakova . . .
Grintovec via Jame . . .
.
.
.
.
Velika Planina, anywhere . . .
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| DarjaZaplotnik6. 11. 2013 22:20:10 |
@jax wrote "...So? I didn't say that winter scrambling on Debela peč is anything difficult. But I did say that the alpinism commission recognizes it as an alpine tour. Turski žleb though - if you walk from its top to say Mala Rinka, it would count too..."
That's right @jax, but before that you need to complete training at the alp. school, submit a proper list of completed alpine ascents and pass the exam. With that you have the title alp. trainee in your pocket and the mentioned tours can be included in the set for registration at KA.
Oh... gullies in MM are all harder than Turski žleb, one after another, even though some are shorter compared to it.
Turski žleb as a standalone tour doesn't count in the set of alpine tours, unless you ski it or go further say to Rinke.
Triglav in winter counts as winter approach.
Hm, apparently the adjective alpinistic is very fashionable.
lp d
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| Keko6. 11. 2013 22:56:07 |
Precise definition of various forms of ascents, approaches, routes to summits in summer and winter conditions and definitions according to the mountaineering terminology dictionary.
http://ka.pzs.si/besedilo.php?pid=2
| (+1) | | |
|
|
|
|
| IgorZlodej7. 11. 2013 00:36:16 |
When someone dictates something to you, saying this is it and then and then, it usually loses all sense. Visiting mountains in winter is something completely different from various definitions of rigid organizations .
| (+9) | | |
|
|
|
|
| lizika7. 11. 2013 07:38:39 |
Hm, mine keeps wanting to decide stuff for me too, and I tell him it makes no sense 
| (+5) | | |
|
|
|
You must log in to post a comment:
If you do not yet have a username, you must first
register.