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Velika Planina

tol1. 02. 2010 20:08:23

Well, I didn't want to exaggerate about Pasje pečine. In summer I prefer to go by bike over Pasje pečine and push the bike over those couple of "steps", rather than up the top of this hill and then back to the path to Primož.

Underlined: the path is not demanding. In winter time it's good to know the paths, because there are quite a few different variants.

But I've never been to Kisovec velik nasmeh

tol1. 02. 2010 21:10:57

I've never carried an ice axe and crampons to Velika planina.

On Velika planina and on the way to it I've never seen anyone who had an ice axe on their backpack, and I've never seen anyone who would use an ice axe on the path over Primož and carry crampons.

I also don't know on which part the ice axe and crampons would be useful.

Only those city crampons would be useful, when the path is already so trampled that it really slips and is slippery.

Usually for mandatory gear for the path to Velika planina, unfortunately I'd rather recommend a device for measuring alcohol level... unfortunately! Today two guys could hardly walk on the path from Mala planina, they ended up on the ground a couple of times, and the terrain there was completely flat....

sunflower1. 02. 2010 21:42:59

Innocent question Tol: "How many times have you gone to Velika Planina on foot since you have crampons and ice axe?"

tol1. 02. 2010 21:49:56

7 times

I'm not kidding. It's stupid to go to Kokrško sedlo when the snow is frozen, without crampons and ice axe.
You can get to Velika planina without ice axe and crampons. On the other side of Kamniška Bistrica is Kamniški vrh, which is 250 m lower than Velika planina. That one however never without ice axe and crampons.

pikec11. 02. 2010 23:04:43

tol
When I went to Velika over Pasje pečine, mandatory ice axe and crampons - but it depends also on the snow....
It's too dangerous to play around there, you go far down.

tol2. 02. 2010 00:00:31

I consider myself a person for whom prevention means more than cure. But unfortunately I don't see reasons for using crampons and ice axe on the path to Velika planina.

Has there ever been an accident on this path due to a slip? As far as I know last year they found someone who lay there and froze because of too much alcohol.
Otherwise the terrain at Pasjih pečina doesn't overhang, but is gentle. You can't slip but you can fall if you stumble.

Anyway, the track is made, the path is normally passable, ice axe and crampons are not needed, but if you feel the need for a heavy backpack then you can carry ice axe and crampons with you.

But if someone misses a Lowe Alpine glove, which was found on the hill behind Domžalski mdomom, you can get it from me, phone 031 215 250.

tol2. 02. 2010 18:56:32

Today's highway over Pasje pečine. Crampons and ice axe mandatory! velik nasmeh

sunflower2. 02. 2010 19:35:45

Come on, calm down. Today there were ideal conditions, also elsewhere. For me on my path even poles were almost unnecessary, while on the same path two days ago crampons were unfortunately just a pious wish.

And that you've been 7 times or now already 8 times on this path says quite a lot, especially about your mountaineering history. If you said you have no clue, you'd be much more credible.

tol2. 02. 2010 20:13:56

2 days ago there was new snow.
Snowshoes are useful, crampons not really, right? When the path is trodden and it freezes, those town crampons will still be somewhat useful. But I don't understand why anyone would bother hiking to VP with 12-point crampons, OK unless you have ALU ones!?

This year (so January and 2 days of February) besides Velika planina: Grintovec, Planjava to Sukalnik, Bivak pod Skuto (via Žmavčarje, and a bit on Malih podih), Kamniški Dedec, Kamniško sedlo (some 3 or 4 times), Kokrsko sedlo (not the same as to Grintovec)
+ 4 times Velika planina (if not counting night sledding, if yes then 6 times)
All that in January

Will it be OK?
Oh. Why so many times VP? Well when avalanche conditions are over 2nd level and after snowfall, I just don't go to high mountains. And VP is really wonderful in sunny weather!

I'm sorry I didn't take the smukec (shovel) today. It kinda worked with a bag under my butt, but with smukec it would've slid better, of course downhill, uphill we walked :P

sunflower2. 02. 2010 20:23:27

We're not talking about this year! Good luck with your hill climbing ahead.

By the way, under the new ice there was surprisingly ice. Probably you need a bit more experience to understand the situation I'm describing.

tol2. 02. 2010 20:27:38

Ok, I'm backing out of the topic.

Just adding this.
Guy asked yesterday about conditions and I was on VP yesterday and gave him current info.
Today I was again on VP and attached AC section on Pasje pečine.

Then you hassle me that yeah 2 days ago conditions were totally different. Such info is less useful than up-to-date, right? Then you attack me if I tell him what the actual situation was on the day he asked about conditions.

Also in the Winter Tours guide the route is described as distinctly easy and suitable mainly when new snow falls and that's because there's no avalanche danger on the path. If Pasje pečine is too much for someone, there's a safer path to the top of the hill below Pasje pečine and it's also tracked. And if Pasje pečine is too much, then serious high mountain tours are out too, right? No idea how such a person would manage on the icy roof of Grintovec?

But that's why these days, until avalanche conditions improve elsewhere in high mountains, there's tons of ski tourers on VP.
A sin to sit out such nice days at home in the valley!

Best regards
Gregor Kurnik

JusAvgustin2. 02. 2010 20:34:42

tol, if some walk on flat with climbing crampons and ice tools in hands, that's their choice. I also worried about it and tried to explain, no success. They carry the weight, not you. Forum isn't for arguing among ourselves and turning up noses. In winter ascents this path is easy and suitable for everyone, but conditions aren't always ideal... Prevention is still better than cure, so what if people laugh at me for hauling 20 kg backpack on every tour... My business what's in it and what's not. Also on conditions: Vršič area got a proper snow dump (orographic barrier), while elsewhere much less than at Vršič. At Vršič 50 to 70 cm. Danger level is solid III.
Regards

apčih2. 02. 2010 22:22:17

Today we went to VP from Stahovica past Primož. We avoided Pasje pečine via the upper path which goes about 50m higher and soon rejoins the path (bypass costs 5 or 10 min), the one over Pasje pečine. Both paths are already real highways two days after snowing (as you see on tol's pics), the one over Pasje pečine looks even more trodden. Where we went (upper path) crampons and ice axe definitely not necessary - path always in forest, nowhere crosses slope and not exposed. But crampons (with small teeth) come in handy if you don't want to slip on the path.

I was loaded today with ice axe and 12-point crampons, since first time and those few deca cost nothing. Next time probably exceptionally leave both at home.

GITA2. 02. 2010 23:43:24

Well, instead of joining the debate on necessity of ice axe and crampons on the way to Velika Planina, I'll attach some pics from today....we met only one with small crampons, and he was in sneakers, obviously trail runner and "official photographer" for promo materials for world trail running champs this year on Velika Planina, as he explained in a short chat on the way...

Who would have thought.... also on Mali planina there are avalanches..., pardon, small avalanches :-)

mukica3. 02. 2010 07:41:35

Nice pics, Gita.
I agree with tol, no need for ice axe and big crampons to the plateau. With husband we visit often in all seasons, winter more (not for high mountains) and really never seen or experienced needing ice axe. Small crampons are useful though, so you don't slip on the main path, usually tracked day after snow. nasmeh

I usually carry quite a lot in backpack, because you never know what you'll need. On Velika Planina weather changes fast, like everywhere in hills and most dangerous/unpredictable is fog there. mežikanje

gams443. 02. 2010 17:13:13

Everything nice and right, but you'll write a whole fairy tale about this big Planina when the weather is nice. Where are you then when there's fog up to the knees and none of you anywhere? Shame. At the same time I invite you to carnival downhill skiing on 13.2 at 11 o'clock in Planšarsko naselje. It will be fun. Rich prizes.

keber13. 02. 2010 17:28:10

Why would I go up then, when there's fog and even dangerous?

pohodnica539. 02. 2010 18:40:32

On Velika Planina it was still very nice on Monday, due to easy approach - Kranjski Rak, without ice axe and crampons, of course with other mandatory gear - camera;